S.A.S.C.
General Topics => Member Discussion (Private) => Topic started by: PedalFaster on September 25, 2018, 03:17:57 PM
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As mentioned in another thread (http://forums.sascsolo.com/index.php?topic=1228.msg9750#msg9750), this year will be the last year we'll have access to the YYC lot.
The club executive has efforts underway to identify and secure alternative sites, but I figured it would also be helpful to start a thread soliciting suggestions. Seen an appropriately sized and lightly occupied lot on your travels? Post it here.
PLEASE NOTE: DO NOT APPROACH ANY SITES YOURSELF. We want to approach sites in an organized, professional, and consistent manner, since we'll likely only have one shot at convincing any given location.
Some sites that have already been suggested (so no need to repeat them):
- McMahon Stadium
- Bieseker Airport
- Every other airport within 250 km of Calgary
- North Hill Centre Sears
- Max Bell Arena
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I've said it before but I'll say it again - we need to make friends with Tsuu T'ina. They are open for business, not bound by city bylaws for noise or Nimbys, and have lands right on the ring road. Maybe even an extension to the Grey Eagle area is all that we'd need, however they have plans for many things along the SWCRR when that is completed.
In turn we provide steady, regular usage, possibly even through the winter as Ice-Dice is seemingly dead as well. Other user groups can book the lot for driver/motorcycle training, car shows, etc.
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I've said it before but I'll say it again - we need to make friends with Tsuu T'ina. They are open for business, not bound by city bylaws for noise or Nimbys, and have lands right on the ring road. Maybe even an extension to the Grey Eagle area is all that we'd need, however they have plans for many things along the SWCRR when that is completed.
In turn we provide steady, regular usage, possibly even through the winter as Ice-Dice is seemingly dead as well. Other user groups can book the lot for driver/motorcycle training, car shows, etc.
The club did use Grey Eagle in the past, but despite not being bound by bylaws or NIMBY they still stopped renting to us after noise complaints. I seem to remember it was tire noise related and from someone on the north side of Glenmore Trail.
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I know this is probably a long shot (at least judging by the ones I can think of) - how about any local ski hill parking lots, not sure I can think of any that are paved or not in a provincial/federal park, but maybe it will trigger an idea for someone else?
John
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I know this is probably a long shot (at least judging by the ones I can think of) - how about any local ski hill parking lots, not sure I can think of any that are paved or not in a provincial/federal park, but maybe it will trigger an idea for someone else?
John
I was gonna suggest that... Sunshine Village's parking lot is very open, and I believe most of it is paved... The only time I see the lot of under snow though.
My only concern is people use the resort for hiking in the summer, but I am not sure how much of the parking lot is used during that time
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I know this is probably a long shot (at least judging by the ones I can think of) - how about any local ski hill parking lots, not sure I can think of any that are paved or not in a provincial/federal park, but maybe it will trigger an idea for someone else?
John
As an aside, I hear these make great summer rallycross locations.
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What would be a good estimate for minimum lot size?
I'm pretty sure it's too small, and a long shot but if you look at satellite view of Spruce Meadows on google maps it looks like they've been hosting something auto related in lot 7 or 8.
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What would be a good estimate for minimum lot size?
I'm pretty sure it's too small, and a long shot but if you look at satellite view of Spruce Meadows on google maps it looks like they've been hosting something auto related in lot 7 or 8.
Actually both those lots are quite large - bigger than Red Deer for sure. Good find.
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What would be a good estimate for minimum lot size?
200 m x 100 m is a rough minimum for rectangular sites, while 500 m x 20 m is a rough minimum for runways. For reference, YYC measures approximately 290 m x 135 m, Westerner is a triangle roughly 220 m long and 110 m wide at its widest point (39 m at its narrowest), and Fort Macleod’s main runway measures 600 m x 22 m to the taxiway.
Edit: Westerner being 39 m wide at its narrowest point doesn't sound right. Let me double-check that.
Edit 2: I thought 39 m sounded too wide, but Westerner's probably actually around 40 m, as verified both by Google Maps' distance measuring tool, and by counting parking stalls.
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The warehouses north of Calgary are actually quite interesting locations as they are not open on Sundays and some have very large lots, but may have transport trucks in them from time to time. Best one I found was the Sobey's distribution center, link to the google map:
https://goo.gl/maps/sEuF859bPkw
Lot measures about 380m x 200m. The only trouble is that it is a large corporate entity and may not have much interest in renting out that lot, plus the agreement even if they considered would probably be terrible.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/2_K_qq_5nKDetH5zpE7WZNnfvTzW_rKYYfTX5muvuWPQ1LIWLGB0AaXaFypsdDoHwws5ieA8vtGiOMEECufLXGI9-mx3ZMVght3wrJCt1uFty9Mbv7Y8q_aeM49yoTFxpGu9BPBYD2oCKdowQrohvxcqkEsu_8uqOCVp4GSgxR9XlqGAih_02cShHEGdakHgcwjexEM-DjB2gDkewAGlIdyOAeCKSpv4KGv6oUhzWve1zKOMkprKMBYKLr_1Aw4lQZ2VkfpC5emam6tsnQK5wH3soF9SXfFVoxZ1rSGyoEIzgUZ-ualXClyUfJZvDCWwEqUu1ejtRcT5W8dVYzx5jQigjnG6Ymhos6qep_xw11stnj9LydKbUSLyqA4gb1GtvpGq82QaZk0GqbXoUPmqqTY6pJbemSSp3xXt16cRafM35xVdxeHrWmkJjYToajHPxCbtLm9FFEuVxMjT7Clss5SOXoPXSGew6IZyH7GrJmcokg6AizAKzcYixHWQhkIlez3wmNernnGBA4ncrdjF_pBvF_U-XP1yQtTojmqMlbHxAhTeKijLQmJ-dG60KWs6ZvkV-OGSDSq9f9P_QfHPurH-sGyZVzgFO1qAmAxw1gmZboVpwJYSxVTf2jUQx2WpiMinLA_DVp80i9TX-iMbWBnEED6smrVbaXwgHmwiEfuwG4k-_Hy_6WvlYw=w2601-h1377-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/iVHNXpKh-1h3pbfzgg8Drm-HgUSH9k2VIf0maAD4TAa6PLAjqzjj5OGHnzpfGBAhmv5bFgLLhmgAo8vUDkDQFkt4uDhLINpQ7RAq1Y1ggVVa9D4435m5iiIB66_-OeGGaH1heJAednB7PgYPuKwgLcJ82UrvDCy6q47_wY0JO4kVdmcFmkxhmX4EdyptxSU3bUNpwXA6paDI_rUvc-Kz4I6w4snK-VT5qPgatEMIBuQbR4lDISEPlHZOtl0AsIHfp2_o1YLZgvmQPVmH-bdVsXaNzyBShWLHuDhIDNoJv9sQYPyOs5BOrXYdVIo7k00z_V-7PlNbTJEZwlKaACtA5BRSQ3GE7W2Z847qscFOQ1X15tMXEcRFjJIxpSVIIbkQHwx7R2nE3Gett8VlpFjQAQ3YLm6Qn0bvH-6FOA3FNsKGwiunwBaRemmlpi1P2vJkAhokb95wQw9sb4F0nvDe15DoAJ8ToJLFssuBy519QyKhkVoeMAE2YDqiUijkxBoV-KDr_Nmfx4lauFIVqNQT5Wx5TV1fOX6YCakiRAenUkC9pIvmGpnr11FLE2ES5m9YXgfHaBt0ZtacUbUc9Gb_Sz_rr5TtiC5mKkhscJhEFFfItpFfjaH-dOhHQnVvt1kxt_kZRbp54lSWtdgzc56hUg_YBZKWKtl4EwaYb-JDktLty7u1l5N6ph3qcg=w2747-h1389-no)
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Yeah, the problem is that people don't generally build big parking lots for fun. :) If you have a big parking lot sitting empty all the time, you wasted money by building more capacity than you needed. There are a lot of beautiful candidate lots out there (check out this one (https://www.google.com/maps/place/ADESA+Calgary/@51.2970571,-113.9802439,613m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x53715f5de641ae93:0x3a5401dfea1dc336!8m2!3d51.2986681!4d-113.9803296)!) that will unfortunately likely always be too full to be good candidates for us.
To that end -- are you sure that distribution centers don't run on Sundays? Someone else suggested CN's (or maybe CP's -- I forget) rail yard, but I know from personal experience that they run 24/7/365. If in doubt, we could always stake out promising lots on Sundays to confirm. :)
If we want to pursue a lot owned by a large corporate entity, the best way to do so would be through an inside connection. Nothing about renting a lot to us will appeal to a large corporation -- the amount of money that we'd be able to pay is a rounding error to a large company, and they will be worried about liability. We want someone sympathetic on the inside to plead our case. Where I used to live, in Seattle, we got to run on the huge parking lots of Boeing's assembly facilities for several years because enough Boeing employees autocrossed to form their own club and nag Boeing's facility managers. (Unfortunately, we eventually lost access to Boeing's sites because their factories started working on Sundays as well.)
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You are likely correct that they operate on a Sunday’s at the distribution Centre. It was always going to be a long shot, just haven’t seen such a wide open lot like that around.
I would never entertain trying to rent a lot from CP at all. Again, would have to be a sympathetic plight to rent from anyone because the $$ is not worth the headache.
Bang on that no one builds a big parking lot without using it. Except for defunct businesses, like the horse track we had in Sarnia Ontario. Usually pavement conditions are bad at that point.
What’s the lot like at New Horizons mall? Kidding...
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I would never entertain trying to rent a lot from CP at all....
I think the big lot in that area might belong to Hansen's (car transport company) which would have fluctuating inventory/space requirements. It might be worth looking into.
*edit* the asphalt looks terrible from the satellite view
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What’s the lot like at New Horizons mall? Kidding...
You may have been kidding, but I already went there earlier this week just to check. :) It's way too small, which is too bad, because it was almost completely empty.
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What’s the lot like at New Horizons mall? Kidding...
You may have been kidding, but I already went there earlier this week just to check. :) It's way too small, which is too bad, because it was almost completely empty.
That’s what I figured. Most modern commercial lot design has too many obstructions for traffic control purposes.
Also, most storage style lots for transport companies has terrible asphalt quality and is more than likely gravel if an old site, not a lot of new ones being developed because of City of Calgary requirements.
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Stoney Nakoda Resort and Casino lot might suffice....or the Stoney Nakoda Band specifically because they're looking at ways to increase revenue/income opportunities for their members (including several development land zoning proposals that are currently under review/discussion). It's frequently as windy as Fort Macleod however ;D
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income opportunities for their members
Paid course workers, anyone?
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What would be a good estimate for minimum lot size?
200 m x 100 m is a rough minimum for rectangular sites, while 500 m x 20 m is a rough minimum for runways. For reference, YYC measures approximately 290 m x 135 m, Westerner is a triangle roughly 220 m long and 110 m wide at its widest point (39 m at its narrowest), and Fort Macleod’s main runway measures 600 m x 22 m to the taxiway.
Edit: Westerner being 39 m wide at its narrowest point doesn't sound right. Let me double-check that.
Edit 2: I thought 39 m sounded too wide, but Westerner's probably actually around 40 m, as verified both by Google Maps' distance measuring tool, and by counting parking stalls.
Fort Macleod runway is 3000' long (close to 1000 meters) x 70 feet wide (I measured it).
R
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Fort Macleod’s main runway measures 600 m x 22 m to the taxiway.
Fort Macleod runway is 3000' long (close to 1000 meters) x 70 feet wide (I measured it).
We're talking about different things. Google Maps says Fort Macleod's main runway is about 2,997' x 70' (i.e. within 0.1% of your measurements). I was specifying the distance to the taxiway / exit road that we usually use as the "if the course goes this far then it'll be too long" point for our courses.
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I can't recall the curbs/lights that exist, but here's some hasty dimensions to reference for Stoney Nakoda.
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I have been there numerous times( I don't have a gambling problem, honestly 😜) And I recall the lot being quite large🤔
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I have been at the Stoney site a couple of times too to look at it but it is on the smalllish side for autox. Smaller than Red Deer for sure. The Corvette club had a couple of events there as far as I know and then they gave it up ... I think one comment I heard was that it was on the small side. The pavement is good though ... not very old as might be expected. In the end I did not think of it as being very viable due to the size.
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Anyone think of any massive but now defunct and empty RV lots that might fit the bill?
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Anyone think of any massive but now defunct and empty RV lots that might fit the bill?
Asphalt condition, if it exists, is generally terrible. Most of them are outside of the City limits for a reason, so they can be gravel.
Good for Rallycross, or winter events, maybe.
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Anyone have a contact at City Hall that could get a piece of the new Arena proposal parking area built to accommodate a suitable space?
Might as well think BIG!
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A big arena lot would be good ... however I also remember the arena the Flames group (?) tried to do near the location of the former Renfrew Chrysler where they had hardly any parking ... :(
Anyway, the other day I dropped by the Sears lot and I'd say it is a no-go ... far too small plus in the SW corner they have a parking lot - e.g. for SAIT students. And then in the NE corner, the AVIS car rental place is still there that has been there a long time. See attached photos (taken from next to the NE access road from 16th Avenue.
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Sears lot - photo 2 (I have a couple more). This is too big to post as a single post but figured I would post the original photo so you can download and then zoom in and take a closer look.
Originally I had thought if you could go around the east end of the lot from the north to the south, you might have something but this is not really possible .. unfortunately.
Note that I was at the concrete curb for the entrance road (which is a fire/emergency route and we could not block it ... besides the concrete curb is there) ... so as far west as I could go in the NE lot on the north side of the old Sears store.
I had thought the lot was bigger than that ... but guess not.
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Was told by a friend tonight the Cardston Airstrip barely gets used like FM and there is only one house nearby and it's at the end of the runway👍
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I was approached a few years back about hosting an autocross at the Stettler airport. It's very similar to Fort Macleod but I think Stettler's paved parking area is bigger. It's kind of a mirror image of Fort Macleod other than the taxi lane is shorter going to the runway. Never thought much about it until now because its a bit of a drive for most. 2hrs from Calgary. The parking area might even be bigger than the westerner lot. Pavement is in good shape if I remember correctly. The County of Stettler is motivated to rent it out according to Stettler's car club. The Stettler Car Club hosts a big weekend drag race event every july and have for about 10 years now. They even used to do Tuesday night drags once a month but not sure if that's still a thing. If you guys want to drive up here for a weekend or two a year to race let me know. My boss is a higher up in Stettler's club so if there is interest in this venue let me know and I will get you guys some contact information. I will also go walk around the airport to make sure its what i remember it to be.
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Just wanted to acknowledge that the suggestions on this thread are being monitored and vetted.
Dan, Stettler Airport is on the list. We're focusing on venues closer to Calgary for the time being, though, so no need to check it out unless you're dying to do so. :)
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I used to run the Corvettes Unlimited slaloms at Stoney Nakoda - yes on the smaller size but the issue was the parking lot is too small for all the gamblers and hotel guests on a Friday or Saturday night., so on Saturday am or Sunday am there were always cars parked on the course despite their best efforts to flag it off etc and became such a hassle to the hotel that they advised us they didn't want us anymore and that was 2013. It was a great deal - free, if we went into their $19.95 buffet at lunch which we did. We held about 6 events a year there - not sure much as changed except it has got busier.
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Stettler is no further from my place than Ft. Macleod for what it's worth. Cardston is considerably further. That said all three are really just too far for me to bother unfortunately, but that's my personal feeling/situation.
A few years back in talking to the CSCC, I suggested seeing if there would be some way to partner up with the Calgary West Soccer Center. Theory being that they currently have a undeveloped, flat gravel lot which is largely clear of posts, concrete, landscaping etc. Location is tucked away on an industrial road beside the train tracks, but in the city and on the ring road. I ran the math on sound-decay to the nearest houses and it gets down to background-noise levels. They have a lot more land than what the lot currently occupies so a larger space could be paved. I would presume that their busy season is the winter while Sundays during the summer might be quiet while people are playing on outdoor fields. A lot of conjecture, but finding and existing paved lot within city limits is quite probably unattainable. Paving is expensive, but the club is a registered non-profit with a financial track-record.
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Back in about 2010, Jay, Ambrose et al went to Claresholm and did an entire "dog and pony show" c/w power point presentation etc. to apply for use of the air strip there for solo events. I heard they were passing a bylaw preventing any motorsports on the runway at the time. Apparently the attitude has not changed:
https://claresholmlocalpress.ca/2018/m-d-of-willow-creek-shuts-down-all-sports-at-claresholm-airport/
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I'm sure there are nice people in Claresholm and even some who would support us but the people in charge there currently do not seemingly want anything to do with us. I'm not entirely sure why that is.
Incidentally, the CSCC used to host road races at the Claresholm Airport back in the early to mid '60's so they were not always like this.
Hence, for the time being, although I like to support locals and such, I cannot support that kind of attitude toward us as a club and as a sporting body. They were quite hostile toward us and, hence, I don't know if anyone has noticed but I NEVER stop for anything in Claresholm .. nada .. nothing. This is why. I cannot in good concience support that kind of attitude. If there is a change in attitude, I'd be happy to support their local businesses again. There is a nice way to say "no" as well.
As for Fort Macleod, I buy all my gas, food, coffee etc. there. I want to support those who support us! :)
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Did some driving around the SE end of town on my lunch, any large lot that is paved, either has semi trailers in it because it is a logistics company or loading dock, or has too many curbs and lamp posts/plug in posts to be useful. Based on a bunch of looking using google maps satellite view, we are going to be hard pressed to find something that will work within city limits.
I think the Spruce Meadows suggestion is a good one, but this will depend on their willingness of course, and they are quite busy through several weekends every summer.
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Ryan did some looking around, spotted a possible location owned (or leased, we can easily find out) by Hansen's Forwarding. It's just off Ogden Road, near Glenmore. One issue is the pavement doesn't look like it's in great shape when I zoom in. Not sure if the company would be amenable to renting the space.
I've included an image of the YYC lot for comparison.
Current YYC lot:
(http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/u8nrd98wmz05ol5/Current%20YYC%20lot.png?dl=0)
Ogden:
(http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/8ctp2a9lqrn1pl8/Ogden%20Logistic%20Lot.png?dl=0)
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One thing to consider would be to put together a nice package with our rental proposal - that's something I could help with.
A piece like that would help us look like we've got it together, help deal with any reservations potential landlords could have with allowing a racing group to use their property.
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Ryan did some looking around, spotted a possible location owned (or leased, we can easily find out) by Hansen's Forwarding.
One thing to consider would be to put together a nice package with our rental proposal - that's something I could help with.
We're way ahead of you on both fronts. :)
If you have any specific suggestions for the rental proposal, please let me know offline (PM or my first and last names @live.com).
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Tara manages an Alberta wide corporate marketing team, I would suggest tapping her to help look at whatever proposal you are developing, at the very least.
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Emailed!