E Modified Jeep article

[PedalFaster]

I can't find the original thread now, but earlier this year it was asserted that the PAX indexes are too hard for Modified classes. Rejio and I both responded that the PAX indexes are pretty close, and that the reason why Mod cars don't do well locally is that they're underprepared relative to what's allowed in their classes. Both of us posted pictures of the same E Modified "Jeep" to illustrate the point.

Anyway, I found a short article about that Jeep, so I figured I'd share it here. Highlights:

• ~425 whp in a car that weighs 1,750 lbs. / 795 kg *with* driver -- that's a power-to-weight ratio roughly equivalent to putting 1,000 hp (at the crank) into Cam's Corvette
• Runs the entire course in a single gear that tops out at 85 mph / 137 km/h
• Uses parts sourced from a Chevy Cobalt, a '67 Ford Mustang, a VW Scirocco, and a Toyota Yaris
• Uses 14"-wide rear wheels

http://www.northgeorgiawx.com/the-jeep.html

Perhaps the craziest part is that this car, with all this effort put into it, was *5 seconds* behind the class leader at Nationals this year, despite being driven by a known competent driver. It's still that far off of what's possible in Modified.

[94boosted]

Wow very cool, thank you for sharing.

5 seconds?!?! Not 0.5 seconds? Holy smokes that's an eternity.

[Reijo]

Yep, 5 seconds ... at those speeds it is an eternity for sure.....   Jeff Kiesel is whom we are speaking of course .... great driver and amazing well prepared bug-eyed Sprite from San Diego.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KFh_HsL-V8

[Dr Dave]

Makes me wonder how the Jeep/car is even legal. The rules say the starting point for the class is a modified Production or GT car. The rules even go so far as to state "Extremely limited production sports racer-type efforts are discouraged" and this vehicle is not just limited, it's a one of a kind. Further the rules state "the car needs to be specifically listed in Appendix A" which the 46 Jeep is not, they do leave an "out" saying the SEB can approve a car not listed, how they could approve the Jeep is a mystery to me. The article states nothing on the Jeep is factory original, one would think based on that, it doesn't meet the definition of the class, let alone the spirit and intent. Then oddly the builder seems hung up on the car having to have at least an 80" wheel base, but the rules for EM make no reference to a required wheelbase length? I think I'm beginning to understand the comment above that nobody locally is taking full advantage of what is allowed in preparing a modified car, apparently lots beyond the spirit and intent of the rules is allowed IMHO.

[PedalFaster]

I can't speak to E Modified's specific rules because I don't know them well, but I can say that any car with this car's (well, Jeep's) national-level track record has been scrutinized carefully by many people many times. If it were non-compliant, it would have been called out by now.

Rules are rules, and autocross is a competition. "Spirit and intent" are irrelevant -- to get the most out of a car, you need to thoroughly understand the rules and do everything permissible within them. An example in a lower-prep class are high-end monotube race shocks in Street. I suspect most would consider them inconsistent with the spirit and intent of the sport's entry-level class, but they're legal, so lots of people run them.

As for the 80" wheelbase thing -- it must be in there somewhere, because this article on the fastest EM car in history also lists its wheelbase as being 80". That's unlikely to be a coincidence.

[Reijo]

From the Prepared rules, Section 7 and 11 it mentions that the fabbed car must be the same size as the original car.  Wheelbase of the 1945 Jeep is 80" ...

https://www.kaiserwillys.com/about_willys_jeep_cj2a_history_specs

R

[Dr Dave]

I'm not real familiar with rules for EM myself. But upon closer inspection I see what the builder did, he exploited the rules 18.1.A.2.a.b.c. I like it! As Reijo pointed out, this explains the insistence on the 80" wheelbase as well. Up until now I was under the false impression that DM and EM were for modified production cars, by the rules these cars can run in DM and EM, but a ground up pure race car build (built on the basis of a production car) will have a significant advantage in EM and DM. That may be another reason why no one locally is competitive (US nationally) in modified, a competitive modified car would cost over 40k plus trailer etc., except for a FM which could be done for 15-20k plus trailer, spares etc.. That's a lot of money and a modified car is a lot of work too. For most people probably too much money and time for a AutoX car. I know I've spent hundreds of hours building mine and I'm still not done, as for money I'd rather not talk about it, I exceeded the original budget for the car a long time ago.

[MurrayPeterson]

If you want a good idea of what is involved, read about this ongoing EM build:
http://forums.wscc.mb.ca/index.php?/topic/6992-project-e-mod-mgb-gt/

[Jackal]

I've been tossing around the idea of changing classes myself.  I find it tough to jump into the ring with something that someone else built as it may not comply with all the rules.  Seriously considering this guy though....

https://www.racing.ca/?section=view_post&id=1109&title=1990%20BMW%20325I%20E30

[Reijo]

Looks interesting ... FP class probably ... may not be road-legal so you'll need a trailer to haul it (e.g. also won't pass provincial inspection at a garage.      ).

However you might want to check the engine etc. to make sure it is still FP legal ... not swapped out or something like that.  Then it would be a Mod car ... but that is ok too.   

Reijo

[Myz]

I've been tossing around the idea of changing classes myself.  I find it tough to jump into the ring with something that someone else built as it may not comply with all the rules.  Seriously considering this guy though....

https://www.racing.ca/?section=view_post&id=1109&title=1990%20BMW%20325I%20E30

Do it Duane...Then you can roll up with a 2JZ swapped E30 
I mean.....if its so modified already, why not just swap the motor & go balls to the wall

[PedalFaster]

Seriously considering this guy though....

https://www.racing.ca/?section=view_post&id=1109&title=1990%20BMW%20325I%20E30

You should decide how important being competitive is to you. Or, really, whether you'd be ok with being seconds behind equally well-driven cars on PAX at every event.

The reason I say that is that, as Reijo pointed out, this car would probably be relegated to a Prepared or even Modified class, but it actually appears to have very little in the way of modifications -- basically it's been lightened, and has a "sport suspension". On street tires, I'd be surprised if it could keep up with a fully-built STX car; I'm pretty confident that it would be slower than a fully-built STR car.

According to PAX, STX and STR should be 0.07 seconds slower and 0.66 seconds faster, respectively, than an A Street Corvette like Cam's on a 60-second course. Unfortunately, if Reijo's right that this car would land in FP, it would have to go *3.4* seconds faster than an AS Corvette just to match it on PAX. I can say with absolute confidence that that car will not go that fast in its current form.

Just for kicks, here's in-car video of a very-well-driven FP Porsche: https://youtu.be/W5wKpgG0r1s?t=21. For comparison's sake, here's me driving a Toyota Celica GT-S on the same course fast enough to trophy at Nationals: https://youtu.be/yHjogWq4qCU?t=7. His run was just under *ten seconds* faster than mine. 

[Reijo]

Dang that Porsche is FAST!    And, yeah, agree with you Stephen that BMW would have to be "butchered" more to fit big enough tires to be anywhere on the same planet as that 914 ... Isn't that the one that used to be in Seattle years ago when the Fordahls had it?  Probably modified since I bet!

[PedalFaster]

Isn't that the one that used to be in Seattle years ago when the Fordahls had it?  Probably modified since I bet!

Yep, that's the Fordahls' old car. No idea if it's been modified since it was in Seattle other than having Tom O'Gorman installed...

[Reijo]

Isn't that the one that used to be in Seattle years ago when the Fordahls had it?  Probably modified since I bet!

Yep, that's the Fordahls' old car. No idea if it's been modified since it was in Seattle other than having Tom O'Gorman installed...

Yeah..... I remember it being fast back then also ... National Championship car.

R