S.A.S.C.
Solo => SASC Events => Topic started by: MurrayPeterson on April 16, 2017, 06:20:43 PM
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Morning only:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0ByeFbiNdvLbGWlQ5aXV2YWdPVnM
Afternoon only:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0ByeFbiNdvLbGMjZnZE43WVVkam8
Best run of morning plus best run of afternoon:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0ByeFbiNdvLbGVWFiaHhJNElhb0E
Weather turned out much nicer than expected, and we got cars through fast enough to get 9 "official" runs each plus fun runs.
For those that wondered -- the new Miata is amazing at some things (turn-in specifically), but still transitions into some pretty bad understeer in mid corner. Softer sway bar settings will be the next tuning item.
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How is the 42.097 for my score calculated? Are cones worth two seconds? My time was 40.097+1.
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How is the 42.097 for my score calculated? Are cones with two seconds? My time was 40.097+1.
That +1 is a cone that you hit and that adds 2 seconds to your time.
Reijo
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Hah, thanks Reijo. Shows what I know, thought it meant +1 second.
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Hah, thanks Reijo. Shows what I know, thought it meant +1 second.
You're welcome!
But, yeah....just means +1 cone (or 1 cone penalty added to your run), +2 would be two cones etc. each 2 sec.
DNF would be Did Not Finish ...
DNS is Did Not Start
DSQ - is Disqualified
:)
R
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Today was fun. My car is an animal that's going to take me some time to learn to drive it and some work to set it up to be fast.
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Today was fantastic fun. Interested to see what further we can squeeze out of our 100 hp red rocket!
Lots of runs this season see you in two weeks.
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EDIT: I was wrong here. Disregard.
In other news, we're calculating cone penalties incorrectly in the indexed results. We're indexing the sum of the raw time and any cone penalties. I wasn't actually able to find a rule governing this, but the convention (as applied at Pros) is to index the raw time, *then* apply cone penalties.
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Hey Murray.
Thanks for posting.
Am I not seeing where is is just classes ( I just wanted to see the results of just the HS class only) not sure if that's doable.
Thanks again for all you guys do!!!
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Hey Murray I don't see any times for 367 (Blue Forester) Co driving with 167
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In other news, we're calculating cone penalties incorrectly in the indexed results. We're indexing the sum of the raw time and any cone penalties. I wasn't actually able to find a rule governing this, but the convention (as applied at Pros) is to index the raw time, *then* apply cone penalties.
This came a few years ago, and I can assert that PAX index has historically been applied to cones both in Canada (ASN) and in the U.S. (SCCA), at least with respect to autoslalom events (I know nothing about the Pros).
The first time we held the Canadian Nationals, I asked for clarification on this, and was told to index the cones. This was done for both CAC events we held.
The most common software for autocross in SCCA is Axware, and it applies PAX to cones, with no option to do otherwise.
Example (with last year's version of Axware):
See car #31, class CS:
http://greatfallsracing.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/expo-4-10-16_fin.htm
His best raw time is 75.288+1, for a total raw time of 77.288
Now look at the same car's PAXed results:
http://greatfallsracing.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/expo-4-10-16_pax.htm
His PAX time is 77.288 x 0.819, for a PAX time of 63.298. His cone penalty got PAXed.
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Hey Murray I don't see any times for 367 (Blue Forester) Co driving with 167
I checked the timing data, and no such driver number ever had a run.
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Hey Murray.
Thanks for posting.
Am I not seeing where is is just classes ( I just wanted to see the results of just the HS class only) not sure if that's doable.
Thanks again for all you guys do!!!
It's doable, but not easily -- I would need to re-group everyone and then re-score and re-publish. We do not normally have enough cars in individual classes to be of any use, so we group them together (e.g. all street classes together in a STREET group).
It is easy enough for you to extract the results for just one class, since all of the results are order correctly. e.g. William D placed first in HS, then Rob P, and so on down to Edwin C.
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I can assert that PAX index has historically been applied to cones both in Canada (ASN) and in the U.S. (SCCA), at least with respect to autoslalom events (I know nothing about the Pros).
I checked the indexed results for a few of this year's national-level events, and you're right. I stand corrected!
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I can assert that PAX index has historically been applied to cones both in Canada (ASN) and in the U.S. (SCCA), at least with respect to autoslalom events (I know nothing about the Pros).
I checked the indexed results for a few of this year's national-level events, and you're right. I stand corrected!
BTW, this has caused some furious arguments in clubs, even since I have started.
CSCC decided to not PAX cones some time ago (https://cscc.speedracer.ca/forums/autoslalom-results/2008-autoslalom-results/msg36196/#msg36196), but then Axware came into general use and eliminated that option.
If we (as a club or clubs) decide to change how we do our calcs, it is certainly doable (and legal). My scoring software has a config switch to allow scores either way (cones PAXed or not). I made it an option because of these arguments :)
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Here is why the arguments get started:
https://cscc.speedracer.ca/forums/autoslalom-results/2011-event-5-preliminary-results/msg55467/#msg55467
Someone got out-PAXed by a person that he beat in raw time (same class). A fun forum time was had by all :)
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Hey Murray.
Thanks for posting.
Am I not seeing where is is just classes ( I just wanted to see the results of just the HS class only) not sure if that's doable.
Thanks again for all you guys do!!!
It's doable, but not easily -- I would need to re-group everyone and then re-score and re-publish. We do not normally have enough cars in individual classes to be of any use, so we group them together (e.g. all street classes together in a STREET group).
It is easy enough for you to extract the results for just one class, since all of the results are order correctly. e.g. William D placed first in HS, then Rob P, and so on down to Edwin C.
Nope lets keep it easy for you :)
I will extract them no problems at all!! Thanks again for everything!
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Hey Murray I don't see any times for 367 (Blue Forester) Co driving with 167
I checked the timing data, and no such driver number ever had a run.
We did clarify with the start box guy whether it was #167 or #367 doing the run, but I'll make sure to fix up my number set to be more clear next time (not to mention have a resonator welded in, and perhaps change my axleback...!)
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I remember now -- the numbers on the car showed 3/167, so your co-driver was marked down as number 3 on all the runs (and as driving a Corvette).
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Ack, sorry about that! I like the single extra magnetic digit some guys had, much clearer for each co-driver.
Thanks Murray!
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Even with painter's tape, a "1" to add or remove is the easiest way. You could have run with 167 and 1167. Or 167 and 1671.
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I had been telling the new guy at my marshalling station that if he ever co-drives, keep an extra piece of tape to cross out whichever number wasn't active. Just move it back and forth.
Speaking of numbers, loving my magnetic set I had printed. Highly recommend.
Another option for those not wanting to stick masking tape on their paint: https://www.amazon.ca/Moroso-35581-Race-Write-Marker/dp/B001P29TAE I used it all last year and it was great. Available locally at Mopac. Only problem is your windows have to be tinted or it won't be visible.
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I see under mbr (member, right?) it shows no for me (#76), I did pick up a membership when I was signing up for this, where in the process do I get marked down for timing as a member. I remember seeing it somewhere, but didn't see it when I signed up for the next event.
Thanks, John
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The details of membership, rookie, etc. are handled at check-in in the morning. Make sure the person doing check-in gets the details correct.
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Sorry! I assumed that membership yes/no and rookie yes/no were done in MSReg - I'll start checking them more carefully. Got lazy on Sunday - so next time, have your license and membership card ready!
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I swear there was a spot to put your member number in at the registration site too, and it said to put in tbd if you didn't have it yet (I bought both a membership and Sunday's registration at the same time), I didn't see the same thing when I registered for the 29th.
John
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We export a report from MSR and import it into the timing software. It has a yes/no question for rookie, so that flag is correctly handled. However, the software import doesn't know how to handle the various responses for member ship number (such as "pending because I just bought it").
The major thing to remember is that you need to verify your info at check-in time. If you don't get it right then, it won't be right when the scores get calculated.
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Not a big deal but I noticed I only got 4runs recorded. I'm not worried but did I do something wrong? I know I took 5 runs.
(Car #201)
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Not a big deal but I noticed I only got 4runs recorded. I'm not worried but did I do something wrong? I know I took 5 runs.
(Car #201)
You will notice that your co-driver got 6 runs, so one of them is yours. At some point, timing got the wrong number at the start line.
It's important to have the correct driver number on both sides of the car for every run.
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Not a big deal but I noticed I only got 4runs recorded. I'm not worried but did I do something wrong? I know I took 5 runs.
(Car #201)
You will notice that your co-driver got 6 runs, so one of them is yours. At some point, timing got the wrong number at the start line.
It's important to have the correct driver number on both sides of the car for every run.
Something to note: If you have the wrong nos. on your car at a bigger event, your run will be DSQ. How can you get that right? Practice getting the numbers changed over properly at the local events ... .either put a piece of tape over the "other" number or better yet have permanent magnetics or kling-on vinyl numbers and change them every run. 'tis a good habit to cultivate....and especially more so as our events get bigger locally. :)
R
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Not a big deal but I noticed I only got 4runs recorded. I'm not worried but did I do something wrong? I know I took 5 runs.
(Car #201)
You will notice that your co-driver got 6 runs, so one of them is yours. At some point, timing got the wrong number at the start line.
It's important to have the correct driver number on both sides of the car for every run.
Something to note: If you have the wrong nos. on your car at a bigger event, your run will be DSQ. How can you get that right? Practice getting the numbers changed over properly at the local events ... .either put a piece of tape over the "other" number or better yet have permanent magnetics or kling-on vinyl numbers and change them every run. 'tis a good habit to cultivate....and especially more so as our events get bigger locally. :)
R
Yup Thats what happened... Silly new guys we are.. Good thing this was a practice!!!
I have now created it in my head it's my job to ensure to have them changed,
Question, when running two drivers, is it normal that we were being sent within 1 minute of getting back to the pits? First time doing two drivers so just trying to gauge how much time we have. I think its where we got flustered and just switched drivers as it was like we got back to the pits and they were telling us to get going as quick as possible as the grid started moving before we even go out of the car.
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The rules require a 5 minute delay before the same car can be sent out on course again. However, this is a local event, and we send out cars as fast as we can do so safely. If you come to the regional or national events, that 5 minute delay is observed.
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Good to know! 5 minutes flies when your having fun!! LOL
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Part of that "problem" may have been that the "stacking" of cars went a bit too far.
At a large event (SCCA Nationals, Tours etc), the goal is to have 2-3 cars (max!) sitting at the line thereby giving cars/people the maximum time in the pits to water tires, make any adjustments to suspension but also to prevent overheating for Formula/Prepared/Modified cars which do not have any radiator fans. Those cars have to keep moving.
This is something we have to work at as a team. The timing is important and the grid persons' job is a difficult one ... I did it for a few of the events at YYC and you have to really pay attention and vary the no. of cars going to the start as per what is happening. E.g. if there is a spin or other stoppage such as timing, you have to be ready to stop sending cars, immediately! That means a lot of head cranking to make sure everything is moving along smoothly. It is not an easy job and there should be experienced people doing it.
I remember the "old days" when everyone was in a single straight line ... no grid at all....ever. We can't go back to that. We have to move on and especially for these bigger events at YYC. I know it is tough but we have to adapt or we will end up with chaos. :)
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if i am working grid at YYC i try to stack as many cars as possible because of the long drive to the start , but only if the driver is sitting in the car ready to go , skip the cars working on set up or tires and send a few that are ready and go back and send the skipped car ,
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if i am working grid at YYC i try to stack as many cars as possible because of the long drive to the start , but only if the driver is sitting in the car ready to go , skip the cars working on set up or tires and send a few that are ready and go back and send the skipped car ,
Noooooooooooooooo! DO NOT STACK CARS!!!!!
Jeez, .... ideal is 2-3 cars sitting at the start and maybe one or two on the way to the start. I know it can be done because I was doing it last fall and I have seen it done at Nationals. You should have seen how complicated it was at the Heartland Park lot in Topeka in 2007 and 2008 where they had to drive probably close to a km. to get to the start. But it was done properly there (for the most part). Errors occur or stoppages occur so we can live with that.
If you have more, STOP IT NOW! THAT IS A MISTAKE!
R
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noted , i will not stack the cars anymore , i just assumed if the car was running with driver ready it did not matter if it was in the pit or waiting in line , Reijo your correct it can be done only 2-3 waiting but grid marshall will need to be more firm with the command to go to the start line and drivers will need to be ready
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noted , i will not stack the cars anymore , i just assumed if the car was running with driver ready it did not matter if it was in the pit or waiting in line , Reijo your correct it can be done only 2-3 waiting but grid marshall will need to be more firm with the command to go to the start line and drivers will need to be ready
And, that is why we need a 2nd grid person (at the minimum ... as a side note at the SCCA Nats there is a Grid Chief (lately Glen Hernandez of Seattle) and Glen has a whole team of people working nothing but grid! We need to learn (as a team) how to properly run grid and have people trained for properly running grid).
The 2nd person's duties would be to go ahead of the person sending cars out by 5 cars giving the people the heads up that they are 3-4-5 cars up on deck ... and also to find and get people to their cars, belted in, and ready to go. Drivers have to be ready to go when the grid marshall is about to send them. You should NOT be getting in the car, doing up belts, helmets or anything else when that marshall gets to your car and is about to send you on your way. As a note, when cars are sent out at about 20 seconds apart, and you are on-deck, 3 cars at the line, 2 on the way ... that means you will be lining up in 100 seconds (maximum). In other words, there is not much time, and you should be ready to run as soon as the grid marshall is there to send you on your way.
Things move very quickly if done correctly. But it also maximizes the time you have in the pits ... so you can use your tire blankets (for the maximum period ... which you can't use if you are in a line-up), water your tires, make suspension/shock/sway bar changes, change numbers, etc). All of those items become much more rushed if you have near zero time in the pits.
Even at the SCCA Nationals where a typical grid consists of 60 or so drivers, the time between runs is not very much. With two drivers, there is very, very little down time. You are rushing the entire time ... you split your duties appropriately, the driver finishing up changes the numbers (or at the least on their side), open the hood for cooling (and close properly later), spray the tires, engine, oil filter, intake etc., the new driver does very little other than minimal stuff and then gets belted in. If you have multi-point harnesses, you will have to adjust them and that takes more time than normal ... helmet on, gloves on, and then you have to go through the course in your mind and particularly the parts of the course that you anticipate may give you problems (or had on previous runs) ... all the while looking at the grid marshalls as to where they are at and how soon you will be coming up in anticipation of heading out.
It is a very hectic time.
For us, in a sense, if we have cars running at 20 sec. apart, since we do not have 60 drivers in the heat, there is very little time between cars and especially 2-driver cars! Therefore we must be even more diligent with having as few cars as possible at the line so that people have time in grid to do all that they have to do.
Hmmm.....maybe this is a good reason to not have 3 heats but rather just 2 so that people have a bit of time between runs .... up to about 100-120 drivers. With 100 drivers and 2 heats, we would have 50 drivers in grid (not cars ... due to 2-driver cars). With 3 heats, we would have about 33 drivers per heat with 100 entries.
Last weekend we had 72 drivers in the afternoon (the novice orientation people came over who did not run the big course in the morning) and 3 run groups.
How did the 2-driver cars find that to work with? Hurried? OK? Otherwise? Can someone speak up about this?
Thanks,
Reijo
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Let's look at the math: What is the time between cars?
For this past weekend/afternoon, we had 72 entries who showed up and posted times. Assuming an equal no. of drivers per group: 72/3 = 24.
For a 2-driver car, that would mean, the car would be running every 12 cars ... which at 20 seconds apart would be 12*20 = 240 seconds......or /60 = 4 minutes apart.
This is not even LEGAL! A car should not be running within 5 minutes (due to an unfair advantage of warm tires) ... never mind not having enough time to do all the other work as mentioned in the previous post. And what happens if there is a re-run? We could maybe run them at the end? But even then the 5 minute rule does not work.
Let's do the math for 60 drivers in one heat (ala SCCA Nats, Tours etc.). A 2-driver car (3 drivers are not allowed), would be up on deck every 30 drivers *20/run = 600 seconds, or 10 minutes. Note that this time includes time to drive to/from the grid from the start/finish lines respectively. If there is a re-run (there is one worker whose duty is ONLY to time the interval between runs with a stopwatch for a car based on re-runs ... that a car should not go out before 5 minutes has passed ... including the travel time to the start etc. It is tricky). We have done this locally only when we have hosted the Canadian Nationals.
How many cars would we need in a run group to have a minimum of 5 minutes between runs for 2-driver cars? Well, we calculated 4 minutes between runs from the weekend so we need 5-4 = 1 minute more time /20 sec./run = 3 more drivers. Therefore we should have an absolute minimum of 24+3 = 27 drivers per heat. What if cars go out in less than 20 seconds (one year, Marshall Grice of LA sent out cars at 17 seconds apart. They finished at 2 pm ... the earliest of any SCCA Nationals in history! - e.g. since 1972). For 17 second intervals, using the same math, we would need a minimum of 35 drivers per heat ...
Note that these calculations are all based on a MINIMUM of 5 minutes between runs for 2-driver cars. These calculations do not give us any room for any re-runs ... which are sure to happen and so we should account for them.
Sounds like we should run about 40 cars per heat ideally.....at the least and an absolutely minimum of 30 drivers (not cars).
So, unless we have 90 or more, we should have 2 heats only it looks like.
Interesting, eh?
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noted , i will not stack the cars anymore , i just assumed if the car was running with driver ready it did not matter if it was in the pit or waiting in line , Reijo your correct it can be done only 2-3 waiting but grid marshall will need to be more firm with the command to go to the start line and drivers will need to be ready
Last weekend we had 72 drivers in the afternoon (the novice orientation people came over who did not run the big course in the morning) and 3 run groups.
How did the 2-driver cars find that to work with? Hurried? OK? Otherwise? Can someone speak up about this?
Thanks,
Reijo
Richard and I were rushing quite a bit to get pressures dialed in/numbers done. I barely had enough time to jump in/get belted before i was called up to the line.
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A last calculation:
What if you have 10 cars lined up at the start line? That means you will spend 9*20 = 180 seconds standing still, clutching on/off (extra clutch wear anyone?), etc.
Last Sunday, with 24 cars, 2-drivers had 240 seconds between runs including driving to from the course.
If you spend 180 seconds in the lineup, then you are left with 60 seconds (less the time to drive from the finish light to the grid spot) to change drivers, undo/do up belts, change numbers, put your helmet on, water tires, etc.
I think I see a problem. When you consider driving from the finish line to the grid spot, you are potentially left with zero time if it takes one minute to stop in grid! Wow!
We need to maximize the time in the pits by not lining up more cars than we absolutely need to. This really is important (look at the calculation above again if you need to). 1 minute stopped in grid is not enough time.
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We were very rushed in our two driver car on Sunday, we didn't even get to check all our tire pressures between runs at one point.
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Keeping a shorter line up in our YYC events is going to require very, very attentive grid marshals. Mind you, this is probably the lowest YYC attendance for the year, so the importance of a short start line will be reduced.
On the plus side from Sunday, we got in our runs in record time, with no drama at all. Congrats to the entire coordinating team -- their hard work showed. I think this was the smoothest and best run event ever.
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Jeff did his runs in one go and then I did mine - even then it was a rush to get tire pressures checked and adjusted between some of the runs.
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How about that? The theory (calculations) properly predicted the results ... e.g. it is very rushed in the pits.
Before this weekend I had not thought about the resultant rush in grid if we do not have enough cars and if we send out cars close together. Learn something new every day, huh?! :)
As a side note and for future reference, we had previously determined the cut-off for two or three run groups on whether we had enough people to man all the stations. Apparently at YYC, the criteria should be time between runs! At FM, of course, the game is different with less entries and more time between runs due to the overlap that we have to live with. However there is a bit of a time saver in that we have a few less change-overs during the day ... e.g. 2 heats vs. 3 heats.....4 vs. 6
So it seems that we have been running heats that are too small! Who'da thunk?
Therefore it looks like it is best to keep 2 heats unless we are over 100 drivers or so.
I do like the idea of 3 heats since we do not take a lunch break then but I think that is a worthwhile sacrifice. It would be more do-able if we had a lunch truck on-site ... I know we were looking into that but it was too much money but there may have been others we did not look at or were about to ...
Reijo
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How about that? The theory (calculations) properly predicted the results ... e.g. it is very rushed in the pits.
Before this weekend I had not thought about the resultant rush in grid if we do not have enough cars and if we send out cars close together. Learn something new every day, huh?! :)
As a side note and for future reference, we had previously determined the cut-off for two or three run groups on whether we had enough people to man all the stations. Apparently at YYC, the criteria should be time between runs! At FM, of course, the game is different with less entries and more time between runs due to the overlap that we have to live with. However there is a bit of a time saver in that we have a few less change-overs during the day ... e.g. 2 heats vs. 3 heats.....4 vs. 6
So it seems that we have been running heats that are too small! Who'da thunk?
Therefore it looks like it is best to keep 2 heats unless we are over 100 drivers or so.
I do like the idea of 3 heats since we do not take a lunch break then but I think that is a worthwhile sacrifice. It would be more do-able if we had a lunch truck on-site ... I know we were looking into that but it was too much money but there may have been others we did not look at or were about to ...
Reijo
Since it came up I just want to repeat concern about bringing a food truck on site - throughput.
In my experience food trucks feed about 1 person per minute at a cost of ~$10 per person. With 40 people in a run group and an assumption that it takes 15 minutes to eat lunch after you receive your food that means you need 55 minutes to get all of the competitors fed plus any extra time caused by spectators lining up at the food truck. In my opinion this time could only be shortened by bringing out more food trucks or reducing the number of people patronizing the food truck, both of which would likely bring the revenue per truck below the minimum amount they required to come out for the day.
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How did the 2-driver cars find that to work with? Hurried? OK? Otherwise? Can someone speak up about this?
In the morning it was definitely rushed but in the afternoon (with the novices joining the run groups) Ken and I had just enough time to check pressures have a quick chat and get buckled in before we were called up again.
How about that? The theory (calculations) properly predicted the results ... e.g. it is very rushed in the pits.
Before this weekend I had not thought about the resultant rush in grid if we do not have enough cars and if we send out cars close together. Learn something new every day, huh?! :)
As a side note and for future reference, we had previously determined the cut-off for two or three run groups on whether we had enough people to man all the stations. Apparently at YYC, the criteria should be time between runs! At FM, of course, the game is different with less entries and more time between runs due to the overlap that we have to live with. However there is a bit of a time saver in that we have a few less change-overs during the day ... e.g. 2 heats vs. 3 heats.....4 vs. 6
So it seems that we have been running heats that are too small! Who'da thunk?
Therefore it looks like it is best to keep 2 heats unless we are over 100 drivers or so.
I do like the idea of 3 heats since we do not take a lunch break then but I think that is a worthwhile sacrifice. It would be more do-able if we had a lunch truck on-site ... I know we were looking into that but it was too much money but there may have been others we did not look at or were about to ...
Reijo
Since it came up I just want to repeat concern about bringing a food truck on site - throughput.
In my experience food trucks feed about 1 person per minute at a cost of ~$10 per person. With 40 people in a run group and an assumption that it takes 15 minutes to eat lunch after you receive your food that means you need 55 minutes to get all of the competitors fed plus any extra time caused by spectators lining up at the food truck. In my opinion this time could only be shortened by bringing out more food trucks or reducing the number of people patronizing the food truck, both of which would likely bring the revenue per truck below the minimum amount they required to come out for the day.
Wayne looked into food trucks and it was very cost prohibitive iirc they wanted quite a large sum of money upfront just to show up. I know Richard was looking into a different food truck to see if their costs were more reasonable.
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My experience with food trucks at race events is not good. At last year's Canadian Nationals, we waited so long for our food that we had to walk away without getting any food. We basically ran out of time, and needed to be in grid before the food was ready :(
We have restaurants within a 1-10 minute drive of the venue -- they should do just fine.
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Probably with 3 heats food trucks would work better for some (longer break) ... There will always be others who go to the Tim's or DQ on the other side of the runway ....
R
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In San Diego they had the "Roach Coach" as they called it .. .lol .... They would be there first thing in the morning and stay until about 2 pm (guessing here) and their breakfast burrito with real hot sauce was great! One of the things I miss down there. However their events had about 150 people as a minimum back then.....so plenty of people to buy food.
150 is a number we could potentially reach at YYC I think ... over a bit of time ...
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150 is a number we could potentially reach at YYC I think ... over a bit of time ...
We have a ways to go. VCMC runs 120 drivers, and they get 7 runs each, for a total of 840 runs.
With fun runs, we managed 630 runs for the day. So, we need to step up our game by quite a bit in comparison. I expect 3 run groups will make up most of this difference, since we will have an extra hour (ish) to get in the extra runs. And better grid control will make a huge difference as well.
Tom (et al) running grid -- be very willing to send the next car in line if a driver isn't ready. We aren't at the level of SCCA Tour events with Glen running grid. I worked under him multiple times in grid, and he runs an incredibly tight ship. Nice guy, but he gets *mean* is you don't do it right :)
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Yeah VCMA was incredibly well organized. They started perfectly on time, and were running 3 groups non-stop with everything buttoned up exactly when it needed to be by 5:00pm.
Two things I noticed that seemed to speed things up were the bar codes on the helmets, and that they e-mailed out the work assignments the day before. Before I arrived, I already knew what station I was assigned to, there was no confusion when people needed to rotate out for the next group. They also had a chief worker who you had to check in with on your way out to your station, if you didn't check in with him, you didn't get a score.
Also, to encourage people to help out with early setup, they allow you to volunteer for things like course layout and registration duties, and then you didn't have to work on the course. Those positions get snapped up pretty quick, and I think it contributes to getting everything going on time.
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Yeah VCMA was incredibly well organized. They started perfectly on time, and were running 3 groups non-stop with everything buttoned up exactly when it needed to be by 5:00pm.
Two things I noticed that seemed to speed things up were the bar codes on the helmets, and that they e-mailed out the work assignments the day before. Before I arrived, I already knew what station I was assigned to, there was no confusion when people needed to rotate out for the next group. They also had a chief worker who you had to check in with on your way out to your station, if you didn't check in with him, you didn't get a score.
Also, to encourage people to help out with early setup, they allow you to volunteer for things like course layout and registration duties, and then you didn't have to work on the course. Those positions get snapped up pretty quick, and I think it contributes to getting everything going on time.
Yes, so they are basically using more of the SCCA style of running things due to a larger group ... which is where we are heading as the numbers grow. At one of the last YYC events, we had over 100 registered on-line but due to the weather a little over 90 showed. 120 I think is a realistic number that we may see this summer at some point at YYC. I have heard and talked to a number of people from years ago who are planning to come out ... never mind the Corvette and BMW people etc.
So how about some pre-assignments etc. Murray? We did have a list of worker positions that we did not use for the 1st event (a practice and early albeit).
And, it just occurred to me that the WCMA event in June just prior to the Vancouver/Pitt Meadows Nationals, may be the "big" event of the year with people coming from all over. I think we should plan this one out a bit more ... hmmm..... I wonder about a traditional 2-day event with banquet and everything?
Reijo
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Tom was going to pre-assign run groups and worker assignments, but the novice school prevented us from doing that. Looks like May 13 is going to have the same issue.
We got started very timely last Sunday (10:08 A.M., so only 8 minutes late). I think that the course being set up the day before is the biggest thing keeping us on schedule. Perhaps we can start the driver's meeting a bit earlier to allow for the inevitable delays at the start.
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Sounds like the club is in a healthy place and looking to grow, as we've said before the team concept is working.
150 cars 8 run ways to go Reijo. Beware of the Pit Natzi :o
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VCMC does (did?) do one thing that I dislike. They depend too strongly on the bar codes, and when I ran timing at an event, radio calls were "interesting" because many cars had no numbers on them. A side effect of this is that they have to grid cars of the same make and colour apart from each other to ensure they aren't on the course at the same time. I also ran into an issue where the bar code reader failed, but the number on the car didn't match the one for him in the computer.
I am not a fan of bar code readers for our events. They don't don't make running timing any easier or faster. We allow walk-ins, so we would need a bar code printer at registration. Our current system is simple and easy, and doesn't depend on yet another piece of equipment that can (and will) fail.
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150 cars 8 run ways to go Reijo.
1200 runs in a day is asking for a bit too much. If you look at a National SCCA event (say Packwood), they manage 900-1000 runs in a day (3 runs for 300 cars plus reruns). Above 1000 runs, the event starts running quite late in the day.
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Wayne looked into food trucks and it was very cost prohibitive iirc they wanted quite a large sum of money upfront just to show up. I know Richard was looking into a different food truck to see if their costs were more reasonable.
The one food truck operator that I know, who would have been interested in coming down without the $1200 minimum is selling his truck. Unfortunately I haven't been able to find one that will waive the prepaid minimum.
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I looked at the times from the computer, and I think we may be right on track for getting cars through.
Basically, we managed to get 140 (or more) cars through per hour when we were running.
Changeovers both took 11 minutes, and we took a 1 hour lunch break.
So, if we have 3 run groups and actually manage to keep the course hot during heat changes, we would get 980 runs between 10 A.M. and 4 P.M., leaving lots of time to clean up and be done by 5 P.M.
Even if we shut the course down for safety at heat change, it should take less than 11 minutes. That would give 120 people at least 8 runs for the day.
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I looked at the times from the computer, and I think we may be right on track for getting cars through.
Basically, we managed to get 140 (or more) cars through per hour when we were running.
Changeovers both took 11 minutes, and we took a 1 hour lunch break.
So, if we have 3 run groups and actually manage to keep the course hot during heat changes, we would get 980 runs between 10 A.M. and 4 P.M., leaving lots of time to clean up and be done by 5 P.M.
Even if we shut the course down for safety at heat change, it should take less than 11 minutes. That would give 120 people at least 8 runs for the day.
Sounds good .... I suspected based on the last day that we are more or less on track and that proves it - thanks Murray! So, let's all keep on! :)
R