S.A.S.C.
Solo => SASC Events => Topic started by: Wayne Dyck on June 29, 2017, 02:15:23 PM
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Once I started attending SCCA Pro Solo Events, and was lucky enough to have participated in a Packwood Super Challenge (1st round loser) and a Crows Landing Bonus Challenge (my 3 mins of fame as the winner), I was hooked on the challenge format. The SCCA also runs a challenge format at their Match Tour Events as well, so the format is widely utilized. I borrowed components of both Challenge formats to come up with our own version, focusing more on consistency, no matter the participants skill level (not everyone is a pointy end driver). I trust everyone will enjoy our Challenge Event format.
Any questions about the Event, format, etc. can be asked on this thread and I will clarify for you.
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The 'FAT KAT' Challenge event is open for registration. Note that there are significant cash prizes ... a rarity in solo competition:
http://msreg.com/2017FATKAT
R
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SCCA ProSolo Challenge results over the past few years... where SASC club members have qualified.
2014 Packwood Super Challenge... Cam Withell went all the way to the final round... amazing accomplishment with the talent pool present.
Note: 1st round loser to Cam... none other than myself. This was my first ProSolo event, first challenge qualification, and I was hooked.
2015 Packwood Super Challenge... Ryan Clark went a couple rounds.
2016 Crows Landing Bonus Challenge... I was lucky enough to be drawn for the challenge, and very fortunate to have won the Bonus Challenge.
I was hooked back in 2014, this event only set the hook deeper.
2016 Packwood Super Challenge... Cam went a couple rounds and Tom Kerns (Edmonton) went 3 rounds.
2017 Fontana Super Challenge... Ryan went a couple rounds.
2017 Crows Landing Super Challenge... again Ryan qualified.
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Also...
2013 Packwood Super Challenge... Winner!! Winner!! Chicken Dinner!! Stephen Hui went all the way winning it.
Along with a couple rounds at the ProSolo Finale in Lincoln.
And then there's Reijo... SCCA ProSolo results archive only go back to 2013, but he's likely on record for some stellar CSP results back in '07 or so.
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Also...
2013 Packwood Super Challenge... Winner!! Winner!! Chicken Dinner!! Stephen Hui went all the way winning it.
Along with a couple rounds at the ProSolo Finale in Lincoln.
And then there's Reijo... SCCA ProSolo results archive only go back to 2013, but he's likely on record for some stellar CSP results back in '07 or so.
Yep won the Pro Solo Finale as well as the Solo Nats in 2007. You can see the records in the back of the rule book where they show the winners. :)
R
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I have never run in one of these, so I think I need a bit of clarification about the dial-in mechanism and courses.
Each competitor will be “dialed in” based on their best individual scratch qualifying time, not PAX time. Any Competitor “breaking out” from this dial in time, will be assigned a new “dial in” time equal to 1.5 times the “break out” for the next round. Example: Dial In time 60.00 secs, Run time 59.00 secs, New Dial In time 58.50 secs.
Does this mean that we run the same course on Saturday and Sunday? If the course changes, how do we determine what the best qualifying time would be?
If my "dial-in" time is 60.0 seconds, what does that mean if I am running against a competitor with a 65.0 dial-in? Is the win determined by absolute time difference or is a dial-in PAX computed and used?
For example, my dial-in is 60.0 and I run against an HS car with a dial-in of 67.0 seconds. If I run a 61.100 and the HS car runs 67.099, who wins?
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One course through the 2 day event. Similar to SCCA Match Tour format.
Allows competitors to build consistency.
Dial in... PAX computed between competitors each round.
Using your example...
Competitor 1 Dial in with 60.000 (1.000 eff PAX)
Runs a 61.100 x 1.000 = 61.100 eff time
Competitor 2 Dial in with 67.000 (0.896 eff PAX)
Runs a 67.099 x 0.896 = 60.089 eff time
Competitor 2 wins the round and advances.
Competitor 1 needed to run faster than 60.089 to advance.
Let's use another example where the same competitors each break out by 0.100 sec...
Competitor 1 Dial in with 60.000 (1.000 eff PAX)
Runs a 59.900 x 1.000 = 59.900 eff time
Competitor 2 Dial in with 67.000 (0.896 eff PAX)
Runs a 66.900 x 0.896 = 59.910 eff time
Competitor 1 wins the round and advances.
But their next round dial in is 59.850 (1.5 x breakout penalty).
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Thanks Wayne -- that helps a lot.
2 days on the same course is going to feel strange.
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Welcome to the SCCA world beyond Championship Tour / National events.
ProSolo maintains courses (right / left sides) both days.
As does Match Tour events, where Saturday morning / afternoon is for class competition.
Then Sunday morning is Challenge qualifying for 3 distinct challenges Sunday afternoon.
I've yet to attend a Match Tour, but I'm keen too.
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What happens in the case of a break out.
Competitor 1 dials in 59.00 at 0.818
Competitor 2 dials in at 61.00 at 0.787
Competitor 1 runs 58.5 (47.853 pax) Competitor 2 runs 61.1 (48.07xx)
If competitor 1 had run the 59.00 then their pax would be 48.2 and they lose.....how does this scenario work.
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As per Elimination Challenge Procedures:
Each competitor will be “dialed in” based on their best individual scratch qualifying time, not PAX time. Any Competitor “breaking out” from this dial in time, will be assigned a new “dial in” time equal to 1.5 times the “break out” for the next round. Example: Dial In time 60.00 secs, Run time 59.00 secs, New Dial In time 58.50 secs.
So your example would play out like this...
Competitor 1 (being the faster of the 2 cars) would dial in (this round only) 59.000 (1.000 eff PAX)
Runs a 58.500 x 1.000 = 58.500 sec
Competitor 2 would dial in at (this round only) 61.000 (0.967 eff PAX)
Runs a 61.100 x 0.967 = 59.084 sec
Competitor 1 wins the round and advances... but due to break out his next dial in time is... 58.250
0.500 sec break out x 1.5 break out penalty = 0.750 sec penalty
Trust this helps
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Understanding that some of you... OK, maybe a lot of you are unfamiliar with a challenge format, maybe bracket racing in general, I've prepared a fictitious 3 Group 16 car challenge ladder format. I used actual run times from the last YYC event and randomly selected qualifiers 1 - 16 in each run group. Their best scratch morning time was used for their round 1 index time, then effectively paxed against their opponent for that round only. Results attached...
RUN GROUP #1
Qualifier #1 ran consistent times, got lucky in the 3rd round when the opponent also coned their run away, got excited in the 4th round and as a result carries a breakout penalty index of 54.141 secs into the final 3 shoot out.
Qualifier #12 again shows that consistency matters, all the way to round 4 where they slowed down noticeably against Q1, likely due to competition 'jitters'.
RUN GROUP 2
Qualifier #11 shows a nice consistent 'leaking of sand from their pockets', showing a slight run time improvement in 1st, 3rd and 4th rounds. Always small enough improvement to not kill their chance of further improvement. Except maybe in the 4th round where the breakout results in an index of 60.877 secs into the final 3 shoot out.
Qualifier #12 shows the same minor 'sand leakage', in the first 2 rounds, but couldn't match Q11 4th round improvement.
RUN GROUP #3
Qualifier #10 shows that 'luck' plays a part of any challenge. Their 1st round opponent coned away what would have been a winning run, but not carrying a cone. And then in the 3rd round both competitors coned their runs, but Q10 prevailed on what would have been a breakout run. In the 4th round both competitors broke out again. Result Q10 carries a breakout penalty index of 58.449 secs into the final 3 shoot out.
Qualifier #11 again shows that if you can master 'sand leakage', you can move through the rounds quite effectively. But only until you meet another 'SAND MASTER'.
So, how did the Final 3 Shoot Out play out... Well you're all going to have to join us Aug 12/13 to turn this in REAL results.
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Friendly reminder the 'FAT KAT' Challenge registration closes Aug 10th.
This is likely the only Solo event you can participate in for significant prize monies based on your own run index ability. Everyone has an equal chance at the $$$. Don't miss the opportunity.
Fast or Slow... Everyone has a chance at the dough.
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The 'FAT KAT' Challenge event is open for registration.
http://msreg.com/2017FATKAT
R
Registration deadline for the 'FAT KAT" Challenge has been extended to Friday, Aug 11 at 8:00 pm.
This is likely the only Solo event you can participate in for significant prize money based on your own run index ability.
Everyone has an equal chance at the $$$. Don't miss the opportunity.
Also Note:
Saturday's prize money payout will be revised from 3 deep PAX finishers in the 4 groups, morning and afternoon, to a Random TEAM PAX winner and Random TEAM RAW winner payout, due to the lower entrant levels.
Fast or Slow... Everyone has a chance at the dough.
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Looks like your real excited about this Wayne.
Can you please give us a little more info on the structure of Saturday/Sunday
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The 'FAT KAT' Challenge event is open for registration.
http://msreg.com/2017FATKAT
R
Registration deadline for the 'FAT KAT" Challenge has been extended to Friday, Aug 11 at 8:00 pm.
This is likely the only Solo event you can participate in for significant prize money based on your own run index ability.
Everyone has an equal chance at the $$$. Don't miss the opportunity.
Also Note:
Saturday's prize money payout will be revised from 3 deep PAX finishers in the 4 groups, morning and afternoon, to a Random TEAM PAX winner and Random TEAM RAW winner payout, due to the lower entrant levels.
Fast or Slow... Everyone has a chance at the dough.
any chance that you would offer a Saturday only sign up option ?
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Looks like your real excited about this Wayne.
Can you please give us a little more info on the structure of Saturday/Sunday
On Saturday it is like a regular autox. However the times you post are used to determine your index for Sunday.
In a very basic sense: The Sunday runs are on the same course but your time from Saturday determines your placement on the ladder but you run against your own best time. The other person running "against" you also runs against their own best time. Whoever matches their own best PAX time or more more closely wins and moves to the next step.
Also if you "break out" or run faster than your best time on Saturday, then your PAX time gets adjusted to the new time for the next run (x1.5 the difference I think? but this is a small detail) and the process repeats until there is only one left - the winner. There may be a run-off for 2nd and 3rd place because the way the ladder system works.
The beauty is that you are running against your own best time .... not just the best PAX time like in the SCCA Pros and such. And, because of that everyone has an equal chance. You just have to be consistent ... and clean, of course.
Is that a fair description in elementary terms, Wayne? Please make corrections as needed! :)
R
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Thanks Reijo
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any chance that you would offer a Saturday only sign up option ?
Sorry Tom. The event has been structured as 2 day inclusive.
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Is that a fair description in elementary terms, Wayne? Please make corrections as needed! :)
R
That about covers it Reijo. I wanted everyone... fast or slow... to be able to compete on equal terms for the challenge.
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For Sunday's event, how will drivers know if they're into the next round or not?
Are we keeping track of our own results or will results be announced after each competing pair go out... (or is it after each run group)
eg. after a pair have their run, announcement is made "competitor 1 progresses to next round"....Then competitor 1 knows that he needs to go back to the grid & competitor 2 knows he is going back to the pitt.
Sorry if I'm not 100% clear here. Its so difficult to write out what I'm trying to say.Haha
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Looks like your real excited about this Wayne.
Can you please give us a little more info on the structure of Saturday/Sunday
Hi Terry, check out the registration page for the format:
https://www.motorsportreg.com/events/fat-kat-challenge-sat-sun-aug-12-13-sasc-yyc-old-park-n-jet-southern-391551
-Shane
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For Sunday's event, how will drivers know if they're into the next round or not?
Are we keeping track of our own results or will results be announced after each competing pair go out... (or is it after each run group)
eg. after a pair have their run, announcement is made "competitor 1 progresses to next round"....Then competitor 1 knows that he needs to go back to the grid & competitor 2 knows he is going back to the pitt.
Sorry if I'm not 100% clear here. Its so difficult to write out what I'm trying to say.Haha
Yep, you are more or less right. As each car is run, the PAX time is calculated and if there is a "break-out", then that is calculated as well.
Then the next heat is announced etc. We will track it all. Just show up and run when you are asked to. :)
It's quite exciting and fun.
R
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Are there any restrictions on ride alongs for this event, be it other competitors or spectators?
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Are there any restrictions on ride alongs for this event, be it other competitors or spectators?
I asked the same question, here was the answer.
"To clarify.
Passengers (non competitors) are allowed.
Competitors are not allowed to ride along with another competitor. (An advantage seeing the course more times at speed)
Hope this helps. "
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If you haven't signed up, there are less than 4.5 hrs. left until we close registration. Get on it! :)
We'll be setting up late this afternoon - meet at Public Storage at 5 pm ... probably before 5:30 (1 load) at the YYC site to set up.
We can use some extra help since the course is a long and somewhat complicated one (an advantage to see it and sleep on it? :) ), and, hence, quite a few cones PLUS we will line the course. ... reminds me ... gotta pick up some flour! :)
Reijo