S.A.S.C.

General Topics => Member Discussion (Private) => Topic started by: Wayne Dyck on January 31, 2018, 12:22:54 PM

Title: Autocross Use – Vehicle Insurance
Post by: Wayne Dyck on January 31, 2018, 12:22:54 PM

This past fall my insurer, a very large national insurer, became aware that I use my vehicle for autocross. Their immediate response was; “The vehicle needs be removed from the auto policy. Vehicles that are used for racing are not covered under a personal lines policy”. I have always been of the impression that my auto insurance coverage was not effective while autocross racing, but remained in effect during personal use between events. Sadly this is not the case.

With the help of my existing insurance broker, along with a few others I explored for alternative coverage, I’ve become more educated on the subject of Personal Lines Auto Coverage. This is what I discovered:

Alberta Standard Automobile Policy S.P.F. No. 1
•   Exclusions; The insurer shall not be liable where the person at the time of the accident is engaged in a race or speed test.
From this wording you would expect that insurers would not be liable for coverage during an autocross event, which makes sense. But there’s more…
•   Prohibited Use by Insured; The insured must not drive or operate the automobile in any race or speed test.
•   Prohibited Use by Others; The insured must not permit or allow the use of the automobile in any race or speed test.
•   Termination; The contract may be terminated by the insurer giving to the insured 15 days notice of termination by registered mail or 5 days written notice of termination personally delivered.
From this additional ‘prohibited use’ wording insurers do have the right to terminate policies where the insured allows ‘prohibited use’. And they clarify that right in their own policy wording…

Private Passenger – General Rules Section (similar wording in most Insurers’ Policies)
Binding Authority / Adverse Contractual Action – Private Passenger Vehicles
•   Brokers are authorized to bind coverage on behalf of “Insurer”, with the following exceptions:
o   Any vehicle with substantial after-market modification for enhanced speed or racing by either 1 of; turbocharger, supercharger, nitrous system
or any 2 or more of; interior roll cage, modification to ground clearance, modification to tire circumference or use of tires designed for speed or racing, any engine modification including engine swap designed to enhance speed.
o   Any vehicle operated on a racetrack, or in any speed contest or competition.
This last bullet is the zinger… autocross is a speed contest / competition.
•   The following situations permit Adverse Contractual Action to be taken under the Province of Alberta Insurance Act Regulation 28/2015:
o   Risks where the insured or the applicant;
Provides false information on the application,
Makes any misrepresentation on the application.

To sum this up…
Failure to disclose to your broker or insurer ‘Autocross Use’ allows for your insurer to terminate your Personal Line Auto Policy under any number of the above bullets.

And yes I was able to secure a new Personal Line Auto Policy for my car, with the knowledge it is used for autocross racing included in the application and my acknowledgement of ‘Coverage Exclusion during Autocross Racing / Competition’.

Coverage was provided through Western General Insurance Services, Roy Howerton (403) 250-9118.
Title: Re: Autocross Use – Vehicle Insurance
Post by: zero10 on January 31, 2018, 12:29:56 PM
I had the same problem with TD MM, I mentioned (perhaps stupidly) when insuring my Focus that it was for very limited mileage as it's "basically just for driving to and from events".... bad idea.  They all but dropped me on the spot and made all kinds of threats.  To retain coverage I had to promise to not even drive any of my vehicles to an event, or to participate in them at all (even if I were driving somebody else's car).  They actually wanted me to state that I wouldn't even go as a spectator but I refused and they let me stay anyway.  I was so mad about their response that I immediately called up a well respected broker and set about changing insurance companies despite the new policy costing me about $200/year more than my old one (total $200 more across 3 vehicles).

Up until now the mentality has always been: Don't let your insurance company find out!
Now it sounds like that might be bad advice... perhaps a better idea would be: Plan ahead and be honest

If you ever have a policy cancelled on you and later have to get new insurance, you will see why it is a bad idea to lie to your insurance company, even if it is lying through omission.
Title: Re: Autocross Use – Vehicle Insurance
Post by: nnywg on January 31, 2018, 12:35:43 PM
Very recently I switched to TD, and they want to refuse insurance if you're part of a "Car Club".  Meanwhile they offer collector's insurance which is a bit of an oxy-moron when you think about it - rarely are the two separated.
Title: Re: Autocross Use – Vehicle Insurance
Post by: Wayne Dyck on January 31, 2018, 12:58:44 PM
The real problem with the insurance industry is that there is no Standard Endorsement Form (S.E.F.), provincially or nationally, that allows for coverage exclusion during racing, competition or speed contests. This would require a change be made to the Provincial Insurance Regulation Act, and not likely to happen as motorsport is frowned upon by the general population. As a result, without an S.E.F., virtually all insurers will not provide coverage knowingly to persons using there vehicle in speed / competition events.
Title: Re: Autocross Use – Vehicle Insurance
Post by: nnywg on January 31, 2018, 01:21:15 PM
That sounds like a fight for ASN to get after - well beyond what anyone at the club level can directly influence.
Title: Re: Autocross Use – Vehicle Insurance
Post by: Midnightsky on January 31, 2018, 02:53:28 PM
Maybe we all need to remove our plates when participating in an autocross event? What's to stop insurance companies from "spectating" our events and canceling policies of anyone participating within that insurance company? I guess the same applies to anyone going to Castrol with a street vehicle.  You know, because a "speed contest" is the devil and will kill everyone in a big atomic explosion right? :o ::)
Title: Re: Autocross Use – Vehicle Insurance
Post by: Bitters on February 01, 2018, 09:09:34 AM
interesting discussion here. so with the points Wayne highlighted, will your coverage be considered void or just open you to a termination once found out?

IE: With spec twin, I'll have 2 ore more of those modifications (ground clearance and tires used for speed). If I am in a collision on the streets, will my coverage be voided?
Title: Re: Autocross Use – Vehicle Insurance
Post by: 94boosted on February 01, 2018, 10:43:28 AM
interesting discussion here. so with the points Wayne highlighted, will your coverage be considered void or just open you to a termination once found out?

That's the real question.


IE: With spec twin, I'll have 2 ore more of those modifications (ground clearance and tires used for speed). If I am in a collision on the streets, will my coverage be voided?

The one regarding tires seems very arbitrary, many cars come showroom stock with more aggressive tires than us auto-x guys use (i.e. Trofeo R's and Sport Cup's) I don't think you really have to worry about the tires you're running.



Title: Re: Autocross Use – Vehicle Insurance
Post by: JamesTCallaghan on February 01, 2018, 11:26:42 AM
Last year when I insured one of my cars I just outright told my broker I bought it to take to lapping days and autoslalom and he made specific notes of that on the policy for me so they couldn’t come back and say they knew nothing about it.
Title: Re: Autocross Use – Vehicle Insurance
Post by: zero10 on February 01, 2018, 04:11:16 PM
Maybe we all need to remove our plates when participating in an autocross event? What's to stop insurance companies from "spectating" our events and canceling policies of anyone participating within that insurance company? I guess the same applies to anyone going to Castrol with a street vehicle.  You know, because a "speed contest" is the devil and will kill everyone in a big atomic explosion right? :o ::)

Not to nit-pick, but why would removing your plates help?  I don't believe insurance companies can look up your information from your license plate, and I've certainly never had my insurance company or broker ask what my license plate is (because you have to insure before you can register...).  Covering VIN numbers on the other hand might make more sense?
Title: Re: Autocross Use – Vehicle Insurance
Post by: Wayne Dyck on February 01, 2018, 07:13:01 PM
interesting discussion here. so with the points Wayne highlighted, will your coverage be considered void or just open you to a termination once found out?

My understanding is both...

Last year when I insured one of my cars I just outright told my broker I bought it to take to lapping days and autoslalom and he made specific notes of that on the policy for me so they couldn’t come back and say they knew nothing about it.

Correct... as long as it's identified on the SAF 1 application, insurance other than during event competition is valid
Title: Re: Autocross Use – Vehicle Insurance
Post by: Wayne Dyck on February 01, 2018, 07:17:58 PM
Maybe we start a list of Insurers motorsports friendly...

Friendly
Peace Hills - thru Western General (broker), Roy Howerton

Not Friendly
AVIVA
Northbridge
Intact
Stoneridge
Aurora
Frank Cowan
Cansure
Royal Sun Alliance - they would provide liability, no collision / comprehensive
Economical
April Canada
Wawanesa
SGI
Dominion
Title: Re: Autocross Use – Vehicle Insurance
Post by: threeotwo on February 01, 2018, 07:19:54 PM
Not to nit-pick, but why would removing your plates help?  I don't believe insurance companies can look up your information from your license plate, and I've certainly never had my insurance company or broker ask what my license plate is (because you have to insure before you can register...).  Covering VIN numbers on the other hand might make more sense?

At work we can put a license plate in our system and it will pull up the VIN it is registered to.  Currently works for all provinces except for Alberta, not sure if/when it will be working here, they keep telling us soon....
Title: Re: Autocross Use – Vehicle Insurance
Post by: 94boosted on February 01, 2018, 09:21:44 PM
Maybe we start a list of Insurers motorsports friendly...

Friendly
Peace Hills - thru Western General (broker), Roy Howerton

Not Friendly
AVIVA
Northbridge
Intact
Stoneridge
Aurora
Frank Cowan
Cansure
Royal Sun Alliance - they would provide liability, no collision / comprehensive
Economical
April Canada
Wawanesa
SGI
Dominion

Touchstone Insurance (broker) was friendly
Title: Re: Autocross Use – Vehicle Insurance
Post by: JamesTCallaghan on February 01, 2018, 09:51:56 PM
Touchstone Insurance (broker) was friendly

This is who I go through as well.
Title: Re: Autocross Use – Vehicle Insurance
Post by: 94boosted on February 06, 2018, 12:45:35 PM
Just spoke with my current broker Bow Valley Insurance regarding this and they also have no issues. Zero coverage while competing, naturally and normal coverage while normally using the vehicle on public roads.
Title: Re: Autocross Use – Vehicle Insurance
Post by: 94boosted on February 09, 2018, 03:46:00 PM
If you are going to be speaking to your broker or insurance company I'd recommend you stress the following to them (from my recent, personal experience)

1. This isn't wheel to wheel racing but rather a timed solo event
2. You are fully aware that you have zero coverage while you're competing at an event
3. The club carries insurance through ASN Canada (http://www.asncanada.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/ASN_Insurance_Summary_2017-18.pdf) - this insurance does not cover your vehicle though
Title: Re: Autocross Use – Vehicle Insurance
Post by: kaho on February 12, 2018, 02:49:14 PM
Wayne, if you don't mind me asking, how did the insurance company discover your involvement with the events?
Title: Re: Autocross Use – Vehicle Insurance
Post by: Wayne Dyck on February 12, 2018, 07:09:05 PM
Dissatisfaction with a claim settlement led me ask my insurance broker to explore alternate insurers. This led to disclosure on vehicle use, which was never asked 8 years ago.
Title: Re: Autocross Use – Vehicle Insurance
Post by: kaho on February 13, 2018, 09:16:53 AM
I see. I suppose so far there have been no instances of insurance company personnel creeping up clients through social media and finding out they have participated in car club events.
Title: Re: Autocross Use – Vehicle Insurance
Post by: ZiG on February 13, 2018, 12:20:03 PM
What a pissoff. I have a hard time understanding how what I do with my property off public roads has any bearing on my insurance, especially since I don't carry collision on that vehicle. It's not modified, and participating in this sport makes me a better driver. Guess it's time to start shopping...
Title: Re: Autocross Use – Vehicle Insurance
Post by: George on April 24, 2018, 09:27:32 AM
Thanks for this info - I have to renew my insurance and will be going to get quotes, it looks like the 3 friendly brokers are
- Touchstone Insurance
- Bow Valley Insurance
- Western General, Roy Howerton

any others that I should call? I'll be changing cars and house.
Title: Insurance Company that covers cars used in Autocross
Post by: Patrick C on January 14, 2019, 09:44:24 AM
Hello
My insurance company has informed me they won't insure my car because I use it for autocross. I have phoned a couple of others who have also declined to insure the car.

Anyone have a suggestions for autocross friendly insurance  companies?
Thanks
Title: Re: Insurance Company that covers cars used in Autocross
Post by: John in Calgary on January 14, 2019, 11:09:47 AM
Try Shelley at Touchstone, I switched over to them last year for our Miata.  PM me if you would like more details and I'll send you my phone number.

John
Title: Re: Insurance Company that covers cars used in Autocross
Post by: 94boosted on January 14, 2019, 12:04:56 PM
Hello
My insurance company has informed me they won't insure my car because I use it for autocross. I have phoned a couple of others who have also declined to insure the car.

Anyone have a suggestions for autocross friendly insurance  companies?
Thanks

Patrick I merged the topic with the existing one.