August 2018 Fastrack

[Cagare]

https://www.scca.com/downloads/41702-18-fastrack-autocross/download

S2000 goes to CS and wider tires for STU with some other changes as well. 

[MurrayPeterson]

That gives me a very bad feeling about where they will class the ND2

[PedalFaster]

I wouldn't read too much into the S2000 classing -- there's broad consensus that it's slower than the ND1, so putting it in CS doesn't necessarily telegraph a class speed-up like putting the Type R in DS did.

[Reijo]

I wouldn't read too much into the S2000 classing -- there's broad consensus that it's slower than the ND1, so putting it in CS doesn't necessarily telegraph a class speed-up like putting the Type R in DS did.

I agree ... don't think the early S2k's are faster than the MX-5.  A bit more power on the top end but the turn-in on the original Miata was always better than a S2k to begin with.

R

[Cagare]

Certainly the consensus is that the Miata is considerably faster. The interesting thing is the price of the s2000 is still quite high given the age so I don’t know that we will see it in any larger numbers in street class moving forward.

I doubt we will see the ND2 be in a different class either in the future.

[Reijo]

Certainly the consensus is that the Miata is considerably faster. The interesting thing is the price of the s2000 is still quite high given the age so I don’t know that we will see it in any larger numbers in street class moving forward.

I doubt we will see the ND2 be in a different class either in the future.

I used to have a '90 Miata so I have owned both (still have my S2k as most of you know).  I used to think when I owned the Miata that both the cars were more or less the same.  However when I bought the S2k I noticed right away that it was a different class of vehicle.  The price was quite a bit more and really it compared more with a Boxster S than a Miata.  Would you compare a Boxster with a Miata?  Didn't think so.  The S2k just came std. with a lot more equipment than a Miata ... more power, a power top, leather seats (std.) and there was no automatic available.  It was simply an up-market vehicle and quite a bit "nicer".

And, of course, there are a lot of Miatas around since they were so popular (price point obviously had something to do with it since it was a whole lot more affordable than the S2k and, quite frankly, I think Mazda hit a home run with that car from the get-go). 

The S2k on the other hand was much more rare (because it was so much more money?) and probably more "edgy" ... stiffer suspension....higher performance envelope... better equipped and quite a bit more money.  It was not surprising that it did not sell nearly as many cars as the Miata.  More rare but still a convertible, sports car?  That means more money ... and they are holding or gaining value now.  Because of all the factors above (and probably more), the S2k is simply more collectible, if you will.

Miatas, notably, if in good shape, are still worth something .... which is the case for any truly sporty car ... particularly convertible two-seaters.

[Reijo]

And the ND2?  Well 151 hp to 180+ is a fairly good jump but so is the broader torque range (probably more important) ... and the higher red line ... and the revised gearing.  I think the suspension may be stiffer as well.

I have a suspicion it might be significantly faster in an autox although I have not checked out whether the gearing/red line works out to a higher top speed in 2nd gear (which would probably be a bigger factor than the HP increase!). 

Hmmm.....should check that.  Should go for a test drive ... think they should be at the dealer by now or very soon (think they mentioned July 2?).  Maybe we can talk to Sunridge Mazda? ...

I have a suspicion that the new ND2 may end up in BS.  S2k CR is in AS ... wonder if it would move down to BS?  I'm suspecting the ND2 may be faster.

Well, we'll see.

[94boosted]

And the ND2?  Well 151 hp to 180+ is a fairly good jump but so is the broader torque range (probably more important) ... and the higher red line ... and the revised gearing.  I think the suspension may be stiffer as well.

Gearing and suspension are staying the same from everything I've read, just the HP bump, a very slight torque bump, 700RPM higher redline, a beefier transmission, rear backup camera, telescoping steering wheel and the all important revised cupholders.

Quite a few folks in the C Street Facebook group, some of whom have or currently are on the SEB think the ND2 will go into CS. I've written a letter to the SEB to hopefully put it in BS but I can see the logic for putting it in CS also. If they put it in CS I've already taken the all important step of getting the green light from my wife to trade my 16' in on a 19' 

[PedalFaster]

Just to clarify my previous statement -- I suspect the ND2's going to CS as well. I'm just saying that the S2000 going to CS doesn't mean the red carpet's being rolled out for the ND2 as well.

[Reijo]

Actually Mazda says the torque is broader throughout the range and the final drive ratio is higher (perhaps the speed in 2nd is still the same or close to the same since the trans. gearing is the same but red line is higher?):

Info is here:
https://www.mazda.ca/en/inside-mazda/2019-mazda-mx-5/#__prclt=9rQOVEPJ

Good contingency plan, Tom!  hahaha

[MurrayPeterson]

AFAIK, the final drive ration is on;y changed in the automatic tranny vehicles.  Standard transmission is the same, and the higher revs give it a higher speed in 2nd gear.

[MurrayPeterson]

If they put it in CS I've already taken the all important step of getting the green light from my wife to trade my 16' in on a 19' 

I don't need the permission (well, yes, I do ), but having enough money is my big stumbling block   There are times when being retired can suck.

[Reijo]

AFAIK, the final drive ration is on;y changed in the automatic tranny vehicles.  Standard transmission is the same, and the higher revs give it a higher speed in 2nd gear.

The Mazda web site does not say that the final drive is changed only in the automatics.  It says simply that the final drive was changed.  I know that has been done on a number of other vehicles over the years to give the automatic more punch off the line to make up the difference to the manuals typically.

But maybe we will need more information from the dealer/Mazda ... time to drop by for a visit I suppose. 

[94boosted]

AFAIK, the final drive ration is on;y changed in the automatic tranny vehicles.  Standard transmission is the same, and the higher revs give it a higher speed in 2nd gear.

The Mazda web site does not say that the final drive is changed only in the automatics.  It says simply that the final drive was changed.  I know that has been done on a number of other vehicles over the years to give the automatic more punch off the line to make up the difference to the manuals typically.

But maybe we will need more information from the dealer/Mazda ... time to drop by for a visit I suppose.

I think it's the automatics that have the 3.454 final drive, the manuals have a 2.866. If my math is correct the top speed in second on the autocross tire of choice (225/45/17) will go from the current 58.9MPH to 65.0MPH, a fairly substantial bump. The chatter on the MX5 forums seems to confirm this.

[PedalFaster]

If my math is correct the top speed in second on the autocross tire of choice (225/45/17) will go from the current 58.9MPH to 65.0MPH, a fairly substantial bump. The chatter on the MX5 forums seems to confirm this.

You sure about those speeds? 59 mph is a very reasonable top speed in second for a car with 155 hp, and 65 mph is actually very tall. I was under the impression that the ND1's second gear was only good to the mid-50 mph range.

One thing to consider is that I always multiply speeds in gear by 0.985 when building thrust charts or otherwise doing calculations to account for tire deformation. In my experience, this adjustment factor produces results that are very close to what's observed in real world cars.

If the ND2 does indeed gain 6 mph in second, that's a huge game changer (and the death knell for the S2000 before it even arrives in the class, in my opinion).