Organization Sign Up Sheets: Open Discussion

[NickST]

Last event I overheard Terry and Reijo discussing sign up sheets. The basic idea behind that is drivers would sign up when they registered creating a list with virtually no effort, and it would speed things up a bit during the drivers meeting. The inerrant problem that derailed this idea though is that classes should be grouped together as much as possible, and if people would just sign up willy-nilly that would mess everything up.

This got me thinking about if there was a way that this could still be done and still overcome this issue. Also about if there might be other benefits or draw backs to such a system.

The solution I came up with is we could have a sign up sheet based on classes. Generally we have a pretty good idea of the number of cars when registration opens, so based on that we can have either 2 or 3 standardized run group sign up sheets prepared.

The way it would work is upon registration, the driver signs up on the sheet designated for his/her class, when that sheet is full they would automatically overflow onto another sheet (which is the same concept as moving a few people over to even things out). The result would be evenly divided run groups that everybody knows even before the drivers meeting starts.

Granted, this in itself isn't a huge time saver, however where I think this could be very useful is for assigning marshal stations. When you sign up, there would be a populated column on the left hand side with designated marshaling stations (which would correspond to a location on the course map). There are two key benefits; first is that we can ensure that anybody who is new to the sport gets paired up with an experienced person; second is that we get more even coverage on the course with everybody knowing exactly where they are supposed to be.

I think this ties in nicely with the idea raised at the last meeting about assigning marshaling stations

Anyway, I thought I'd put it out there and see what you guys think. If the feedback is good I can prepare some examples for the next meeting for everybody to review. 

[MurrayPeterson]

I am not sure that time savings is an issue any longer.  The last 4 days at Fort Macleod all started at 10:00 sharp, which is the earliest we are allowed to start anyway.

The issue has always been new drivers -- they forget their class and/or group by the time the driver's meeting starts.  My software does run groups (but not marshal stations), but even it has become not that useful when we actually diviede people up and count them.  I guess I am not convinced that the sheets will make this any better, easier, or faster.  If people decide it has enough value, I could enhance the software to do marshal assignments as well as run groups.

[NickST]

That would be an ideal solution to have the software do it, but the only issue I see is that how do you communicate the run groups to the drivers. Would it be at registration, or via print out later on?

With regards to assigned marshaling, it was something that was raised at the last meeting

[Reijo]

I have sheets made up already.

[MurrayPeterson]

We currently do run groups at the driver's meeting.  We can't do it earlier, because we need all attendees to be checked in.  As a result, marshalling assignments cannot be done before the driver's meeting.  So, if you wanted a marshal sheet, the first marshall and run group would have to wait until it was filled, causing unnecessary delay.

The only way for this to work (printouts, marshal assignments, etc) is if the following were true:
1. ONLY online pre-registration allowed.  No exceptions, ever (e.g. VCMC events, Helena events)
2. Very few people were no shows on the day of the event.

Neither of those points are true, so I expect our existing mechanisms are about as good as we can do.

[NickST]

I definitely appreciate the post Murray, thanks for taking the time to explain it

I guess what I am still wondering is if we just did it outside of the software, by having people sign up manually on a class sheet as they register, wouldn't that achieve a run group list and marshaling assignment prior to the drivers meeting?

[MurrayPeterson]

Not really.  For example, at our last event, more than 50% of the drivers were in street classes, and we wanted to go with 3 run groups.  So how would you know how to split up the street classes (and their marshal positions) until everyone had checked in?  In fact, we didn't even know how many run groups until we had everybody accounted for.

I might be missing something here -- use the previous Sunday's event data as an example, and see how well the sheets would work.

How about a work sheet that people check off on their way out to marshal?

[NickST]

^^ Yeah that is a great idea how to manage it

I saw that Reijo posted he had something made up a few posts up too

Generally speaking, is there a set number of cars where we switch from 2 to 3 run groups? Or is it fairly fluid?

[zero10]

I'm curious to see what Reijo has come up with.

I was considering implementing marshall sign-up sheets for this year, I wanted to make the changeover time a bit shorter by being able to call people by name to their stations, or if absolutely necessary bring my wrath down upon people who are habitually late to their stations.  The problem I have is the one above - it is difficult to get people to sign up since they would have to sign up after the driver's meeting to know what run group they are in.  I was planning to get the rookies to sign up first, one per station, then they could head out on the rookie course walk and we could let the veterans decide who wants to work with who and spend a few minutes dividing themselves up while the rookie course walk takes place.


As for dividing people into classes, I don't feel like there was any significant difficulty or delay in breaking the crowd into 2-3 run groups based on class using Murray's software.  If anything I was the problem, I didn't direct people to separate enough or direct non-drivers to leave the group so we could double check numbers after we divide everybody up kindergarten style.  I am hoping to improve that at our events this year.

[MurrayPeterson]

Generally speaking, is there a set number of cars where we switch from 2 to 3 run groups? Or is it fairly fluid?

Fairly fluid.  Basically, each run group has to be large enough to have all the marshals we need, but small enough that all the cars can fit into our tight grid area.  The grid area is good for around 20 cars, perhaps up to 24 in a pinch.

[Reijo]

I'm curious to see what Reijo has come up with.

I was considering implementing marshall sign-up sheets for this year, I wanted to make the changeover time a bit shorter by being able to call people by name to their stations, or if absolutely necessary bring my wrath down upon people who are habitually late to their stations.  The problem I have is the one above - it is difficult to get people to sign up since they would have to sign up after the driver's meeting to know what run group they are in.  I was planning to get the rookies to sign up first, one per station, then they could head out on the rookie course walk and we could let the veterans decide who wants to work with who and spend a few minutes dividing themselves up while the rookie course walk takes place.


As for dividing people into classes, I don't feel like there was any significant difficulty or delay in breaking the crowd into 2-3 run groups based on class using Murray's software.  If anything I was the problem, I didn't direct people to separate enough or direct non-drivers to leave the group so we could double check numbers after we divide everybody up kindergarten style.  I am hoping to improve that at our events this year.

Basically I listed every duty I could think of at larger events (yes, we do not need them all right now) but was thinking of the future and larger events (like Nationals etc.).  And, quite frankly, even locally as events grow we will need more workers and have to run more like larger events so that we stay organized and this sheet will hopefully keep these other work positions in mind so that we can add them when we need them.

See attached file.  Let me know if I am missing anything.  I know I have not added any additional welcome/registration positions and other administrative positions that you see at the SCCA Nats (e.g. a desk full of people handing out pkgs with local info, course maps, worker positions, multiple rows of on-site registration positions, who arranges all the sponsors, tents, porta-potties, etc. etc.  If you have not been down, you should think about it ... a great show and a whole 'nuther level of organization etc. etc. ... over 1200 competitors).

[zero10]

Reijo - what was your plan for getting the sheet filled out?  Have some things pre-prepared (i.e. setup, registration, etc.) and assign all of the course, grid, start/stop, etc. marshal positions after the run groups are selected?

I see a couple of things I wouldn't have thought to list on the sheet so I'm glad you posted that.  For example, I like the idea of keeping track of who was running timing during each run group.

[Reijo]

Reijo - what was your plan for getting the sheet filled out?  Have some things pre-prepared (i.e. setup, registration, etc.) and assign all of the course, grid, start/stop, etc. marshal positions after the run groups are selected?

I see a couple of things I wouldn't have thought to list on the sheet so I'm glad you posted that.  For example, I like the idea of keeping track of who was running timing during each run group.

I did not think of a plan thus far.

However, at the larger events, registration is cut off the week before (remember we are dealing with close to 300 entries for Tours typically) so they have the entry numbers beforehand and the working duties are figured out before anyone shows up at the site.  Of course even at that level there are people who change classes, drop out, etc. at the last minute or even at the event.  I have seen the SCCA looking for extra volunteer workers at the site during the event at the SCCA Nationals even!  So no matter what we would be dealing with last minute changes at the site.

Having said that, I have noticed trends in our classing ... e.g. Street, Mod, Prepared/SP classes usually have roughly the same no. of participants so we could maybe say that certain classes will be together no matter what and do work assignments on that basis beforehand ... maybe right on Motorsportreg (we can add fields). 

For the large SCCA events, they ask you to give 3 working choices in order of preference and you also have to give an indication of experience (e.g. for timing, radio, audits, etc. this can be important).  The default position is corner worker of which we need the most.

So maybe we could try something like that and we could even alternate the starting order so the same group does not run first etc..  And, the final balancing of groups can take place at the site depending on changes and last minute entries.

So basically it means assuming that we will have similar numbers and classes as, say, the last few events.  In Red Deer (and now becoming the case in Fort Macleod) there have regularly been 50 or more entries which means we can run 3 run groups.  I think I recall we had just short of 60 last time at Fort Macleod and the numbers have been increasing steadily over the last couple of years.

Those are my first thoughts of where we are and perhaps where we are heading ... probably 3 run groups for most mid-summer events.

R

[zero10]

Reijo - Thanks for taking the time to share your experiences from the larger scale US events.  I have not had the chance to attend any of them and I am always very curious about how they handle many things.

I don't think we are currently in a position to cut off on-site registration (speaking only for the CSCC here) but it is the sort of thing I would like to work towards.  Ideally we would have a finalized list at least a couple days before the event and be able to plan accordingly.  If we are able to locate a larger scale venue closer to Calgary (Badlands...?) I could see our registration numbers exceeding 100 and that would require lots of organization and precise execution on our part to make sure everybody has a good time.  It is important to start getting these procedures figured out while we still have the ability to screw it up without ruining an event.

I had already planned a marshal sign up sheet however you thought of a few things I hadn't so if you don't mind I'm stealing a couple of your ideas for my events

[Reijo]

Reijo - Thanks for taking the time to share your experiences from the larger scale US events.  I have not had the chance to attend any of them and I am always very curious about how they handle many things.

I don't think we are currently in a position to cut off on-site registration (speaking only for the CSCC here) but it is the sort of thing I would like to work towards.  Ideally we would have a finalized list at least a couple days before the event and be able to plan accordingly.  If we are able to locate a larger scale venue closer to Calgary (Badlands...?) I could see our registration numbers exceeding 100 and that would require lots of organization and precise execution on our part to make sure everybody has a good time.  It is important to start getting these procedures figured out while we still have the ability to screw it up without ruining an event.

I had already planned a marshal sign up sheet however you thought of a few things I hadn't so if you don't mind I'm stealing a couple of your ideas for my events

You are welcome and feel free to use whatever there - why I posted the spreadsheet.

You should really consider going down to Packwood for the Tour just to see how it is run.  It is one thing to discuss on here but quite another to go down and experience it firsthand.  The organization of the events is one of the things that really struck my fancy when I first went down to run at the Seattle Tour.  I felt that there was much we could learn from them and incorporate in our events.  I still feel that way today.  No reason to re-invent the wheel ... just use what works down south.

R