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Author Topic: Car question  (Read 1933 times)

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kaho

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Re: Car question
« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2017, 12:11:29 PM »
Once again thanks for the clearing up/advices!

Sorry for the late reply as I no longer have internet at home and with life going on at its rate I barely spent any time typing on the phone at 4 words per minute, hence I only replied with some quick short posts.

The focus is really a tempting choice so far seeing how popular it is in the autox setting. In fact after this past Saturday I started looking up some 1st gen foci on Kijiji and saw some SVT's for a few grand (just window shopping right now, nothing very productive). I should emphasize that I don't have a plan yet to upgrade to any car for at least this coming year unless some unforeseen accidents occur. I have plans to sort out my financial issues before going a much more aggressive at the sport. As of right now, I'm just going to repair the Tercel and tires and maybe some inexpensive work remaining within current class. Optimistically a Celica GTS won't happen until sometime 2019. Just thought it would be entertaining to know a little more about car choices for the sport.

PedalFaster

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Re: Car question
« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2017, 02:35:16 PM »
From the looks of it though, it seems like I would fare better in the autoX environment if I have a RSX-S with 0.786 PAX vs a Celica with 0.793.

Not necessarily.  The RSX has never been a great autox car.  The Celica does a few things better despite not having a K20. 

The Celica's a much better autocross car than the RSX-S, for a few reasons:
  • Much more camber thanks to class-legal camber bolts. I ran -2.6 degrees in front on mine, which is a huge amount for a Street-class car. I don't even think I was at the limit of adjustment.

  • Lighter (and very light for a Street-class car). Mine was around 2,400 lbs. if I'm remembering correctly. An RSX-S, while still light, is 2,600+ lbs.

  • Better suspension geometry. Or at least less-bad suspension geometry -- the RSX-S's rear suspension is supposed to have terrible geometry, but I don't recall the specifics.

Optimistically a Celica GTS won't happen until sometime 2019.

If that's the case, I wouldn't even bother thinking about it now. Cars are added to, and moved between, classes all the time, so which car is good for what class may be totally different in 2019 than it is today.
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kaho

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Re: Car question
« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2017, 03:47:19 PM »
From the looks of it though, it seems like I would fare better in the autoX environment if I have a RSX-S with 0.786 PAX vs a Celica with 0.793.

Not necessarily.  The RSX has never been a great autox car.  The Celica does a few things better despite not having a K20. 

The Celica's a much better autocross car than the RSX-S, for a few reasons:
  • Much more camber thanks to class-legal camber bolts. I ran -2.6 degrees in front on mine, which is a huge amount for a Street-class car. I don't even think I was at the limit of adjustment.

  • Lighter (and very light for a Street-class car). Mine was around 2,400 lbs. if I'm remembering correctly. An RSX-S, while still light, is 2,600+ lbs.

  • Better suspension geometry. Or at least less-bad suspension geometry -- the RSX-S's rear suspension is supposed to have terrible geometry, but I don't recall the specifics.

Optimistically a Celica GTS won't happen until sometime 2019.

If that's the case, I wouldn't even bother thinking about it now. Cars are added to, and moved between, classes all the time, so which car is good for what class may be totally different in 2019 than it is today.

Camber bolts are street-class legal?? I thought one could only change the camber via loosening the strut bolts and moving the steering knuckle within the manufacturer's tolerance range (eg. the slightly larger bolt hole diameter around the bolts). I don't think I have ever owned a car with macpherson strut front OEM camber bolts. Maybe I just found a way to play around with my current car!

PedalFaster

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Re: Car question
« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2017, 04:44:43 PM »
Camber bolts are not legal in Street class unless explicitly documented by the vehicle manufacturer as an authorized repair method for non-competition purposes.

For most cars that means they're not legal, but in the early 2000s at least, Toyota made camber bolts available for a number of their cars for collision repair purposes, so on those cars (including the Celica and MR2 Spyder) the Toyota bolts are legal.
Stephen Hui

E6Cueman

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Re: Car question
« Reply #19 on: July 12, 2017, 08:51:24 AM »
  • Much more camber thanks to class-legal camber bolts. I ran -2.6 degrees in front on mine, which is a huge amount for a Street-class car. I don't even think I was at the limit of adjustment.
Well that's something to be jealous about!  :o

Midnightsky

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Re: Car question
« Reply #20 on: July 12, 2017, 03:42:29 PM »
Found this about a year ago when I was considering an Altezza. While these are RHD celicas I do believe the specs are pretty much the same for NA and JDM versions.  I found the video to be fairly informative and fun to watch.

https://youtu.be/YpQ4KhUY814
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kaho

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Re: Car question
« Reply #21 on: July 12, 2017, 04:04:58 PM »
Found this about a year ago when I was considering an Altezza. While these are RHD celicas I do believe the specs are pretty much the same for NA and JDM versions.  I found the video to be fairly informative and fun to watch.

https://youtu.be/YpQ4KhUY814

LOL Celicas won't even beat a civic.
Impressive in the corners though. I think the SS-II has super strut suspension whereas USDM Celicas have none of that.

kaho

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Re: Car question
« Reply #22 on: July 13, 2017, 09:22:53 AM »
Camber bolts are not legal in Street class unless explicitly documented by the vehicle manufacturer as an authorized repair method for non-competition purposes.

For most cars that means they're not legal, but in the early 2000s at least, Toyota made camber bolts available for a number of their cars for collision repair purposes, so on those cars (including the Celica and MR2 Spyder) the Toyota bolts are legal.

Is this repair method what I am looking for to make camber bolts legal?



If it is, I can get an aftermarket equivalent from say RockAuto right?

MurrayPeterson

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Re: Car question
« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2017, 10:07:35 AM »
Is this repair method what I am looking for to make camber bolts legal?

Only if that is the official manufacturer's repair manual.

Quote
If it is, I can get an aftermarket equivalent from say RockAuto right?

Unlikely to be legal for street classes -- the bolts must be OEM parts.  Aftermarket parts won't do unless you can prove that they "have the same type, size, hardness, weight, material, etc". as the OEM part.
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kaho

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Re: Car question
« Reply #24 on: July 13, 2017, 11:58:36 AM »
Is this repair method what I am looking for to make camber bolts legal?

Only if that is the official manufacturer's repair manual.

Quote
If it is, I can get an aftermarket equivalent from say RockAuto right?

Unlikely to be legal for street classes -- the bolts must be OEM parts.  Aftermarket parts won't do unless you can prove that they "have the same type, size, hardness, weight, material, etc". as the OEM part.


Pretty sure it's the manufacturer's repair manual (Toyota RM440U). Would I need some documents to prove it is the official manual or not?

E6Cueman

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Re: Car question
« Reply #25 on: July 13, 2017, 12:30:11 PM »
As Murray said, the bolt must be an OEM part.

The PN's referenced in your image, are valid Toyota part numbers...

zero10

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Re: Car question
« Reply #26 on: July 14, 2017, 10:37:32 PM »
Camber bolts are not legal in Street class unless explicitly documented by the vehicle manufacturer as an authorized repair method for non-competition purposes.

For most cars that means they're not legal, but in the early 2000s at least, Toyota made camber bolts available for a number of their cars for collision repair purposes, so on those cars (including the Celica and MR2 Spyder) the Toyota bolts are legal.

Well, today I learned!
Section 13.8.B
Quote
Both the front and rear suspension may be adjusted through their designed
range of adjustment by use of factory adjustment arrangements or
by taking advantage of inherent manufacturing tolerances. This encom- passes both alignment and ride height parameters if such adjustments are
provided by the standard components and specified by the factory as normal
methods of adjustment. However, no suspension part may be modified
for the purpose of adjustment unless
And Section 13.8.E
Quote
If offered by the manufacturer for a particular model and year, the use of
shims, special bolts, removal of material to enlarge mounting holes, and
similar methods are allowed and the resulting alignment settings are permitted
even if outside the normal specification or range of specifications
recommended by the manufacturer. If enlarging mounting holes is spe- cifically authorized but no material removal limits are specified, material
removal is restricted to the amount necessary to achieve the maximum
factory alignment specification.

If the factory specs the bolts or modifications as a normal method of adjustment you can go as crazy as you want!
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kaho

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Re: Car question
« Reply #27 on: July 17, 2017, 07:39:52 AM »
That's sweet!
So I rummaged through the Celica manual for the newest model and found that the camber bolts for the tercel have also the same part numbers as the Celica, meaning I can save those bolts for my prospective next car!

PedalFaster

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Re: Car question
« Reply #28 on: August 11, 2017, 06:28:37 PM »
If you're still thinking about a Celica, this $3,000 example in Ontario seems like a screaming deal:

http://www.casc.on.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=34459
Stephen Hui

kaho

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Re: Car question
« Reply #29 on: August 15, 2017, 03:55:16 PM »
I like the those compression numbers and the apparently completed lift bolts SB

Wonder what's the hassles involved in buying a car that far away. OOP for one, shipping for another. P0300 (multiple cylinder misfire) seems a bit concerning.

 

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