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Author Topic: Technical Analysis for September 17, 2017 event at YYC  (Read 2995 times)

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MurrayPeterson

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Technical Analysis for September 17, 2017 event at YYC
« on: September 18, 2017, 09:39:44 AM »
Access denied to your picture (but I know exactly what you mean anyway).

I played around with those elements all day, although I never did do it Ryan's way.  However, I did try keeping more left after the kink, as well as letting the car drift far right like your video.  I also tried a super tight line into the finish, as well as letting the car track out into the center of the finish lane.

The results were pretty inconclusive for me -- I never did find that .5 second I needed to move ahead of Quentin.  All 5 of my afternoon times were within a tenth or so of each other (36.971, 36.833, 36.942, 36.858, 36.823).

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Apex Carver

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Re: Re: Scores for September 17, 2017 event at YYC
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2017, 10:16:45 AM »
I did exactly what Ryan did for all of my runs.

Granted looking at some of Reijo's photos from the event (https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=oa.10156043230731686&type=1) at the last corner it looks like Ryan was  a bit wider than I was for that last corner before the finish... (I was around where Q was in the FR-S as far as car placement).

I see that James in the WRX kept it very tight from the photos i could see.

i was tempted to try your option Stephen but im 99% sure if I tried to lift/carry more speed through the kink and stay right it would be just a understeery mess in my car
Chris S. #86

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Re: Re: Scores for September 17, 2017 event at YYC
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2017, 10:24:28 AM »
I went with the same approach Stephen did, shedding lots of speed to maintain a very tight right hand arc into the finish (so much so that I coned the apex pylon of the right hander twice). I felt the biggest difference in my best afternoon lap was that I actually managed to stay very tight in that corner (whereas I was pushing out on exit in other laps), but unfortunately I didn't run data in the afternoon.

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Re: Re: Scores for September 17, 2017 event at YYC
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2017, 10:44:54 AM »
(I was around where Q was in the FR-S as far as car placement)

I would have said that I approached it the way Stephen did.  I.E. I came out of the second slalom as fast as I possibly could without hitting the first cone on the INSIDE of the final sweeper.  From there I had to bleed a fair bit of speed to get around last corner, and then accelerate briefly to the finish.

Ryan mentioned to me that he was bleeding speed all the way through that corner and across the finish, which I presume a wider entry allowed him to do.

94boosted

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Re: Re: Scores for September 17, 2017 event at YYC
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2017, 11:22:50 AM »
I was braking right before the last offset slalom before the kink so that I could set up better and keep it tight for the final right hander.
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Re: Re: Scores for September 17, 2017 event at YYC
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2017, 11:35:00 AM »
Sound logs for yesterday attached.

You'll have to rotate the view in Adobe to look at these, I had to scan them in upside down due to the pages all being bent on the left hand side.
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ZiG

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Re: Re: Scores for September 17, 2017 event at YYC
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2017, 12:00:00 PM »
Quick brake tap right at the end of the slalom to set the front end and get the car to rotate, then keep it tight all the way around the right hander.


https://youtu.be/YBdIJrJw_78

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Re: Re: Scores for September 17, 2017 event at YYC
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2017, 01:35:44 PM »
(I was around where Q was in the FR-S as far as car placement)

I would have said that I approached it the way Stephen did.  I.E. I came out of the second slalom as fast as I possibly could without hitting the first cone on the INSIDE of the final sweeper.  From there I had to bleed a fair bit of speed to get around last corner, and then accelerate briefly to the finish.

Ryan mentioned to me that he was bleeding speed all the way through that corner and across the finish, which I presume a wider entry allowed him to do.

Interesting I was just assuming from where you car was that you went a bit wider, looking at the photos again, I see it was Shane driving... not you.
Chris S. #86

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Re: Re: Scores for September 17, 2017 event at YYC
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2017, 03:12:52 PM »
if i just go by the video and your discussion with Ryan. I would have modified your line and braked a bit more for the kink and keep the Maita speed up between the kink and the final corner.

You're covering more distance after the kink and giving up momentum (by the sound of the engine) ... perhaps you were losing time in between the kink and the final corner entry. Slowing down a tiny bit more meant you will travel less distance between the kink and the final turn as well at a *higher* avg speed. As a result, you would be able to make the final corner a larger radius corner.

The total distance cover would probably the same but one with higher average speed => short time

my backseat driving analysis  ;D

Ambrose

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Re: Re: Scores for September 17, 2017 event at YYC
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2017, 06:21:49 PM »
Although it was a great course and it was, it was also a HP course.

Would Ryan still have won in Julie's ES Miata. I think not !

Not only is Ryan and extraordinary driver he's a fu..ing genius at picking the right car. When I see Ryan at the top of the PAX scales in an ES Miata I'll retract my previous comments and agree with Stephen that the Miata is the car to have, until then Im not convinced.
Terry Johns #8. 2015 CS Miata
Car is reasonably competitive, shame about the driver

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Re: Re: Scores for September 17, 2017 event at YYC
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2017, 07:56:19 PM »
Since I'm never at the top of the index standings now you are right that an ES Miata is unlikely to change that  :-\

THis was not a power course. In fact, through our first 4 runs each in the morning session Cam and I both were barely 1 tenth in front of Quentin in his not so powerful FRS and others. I personally took this as a clue that I should stop trying to drive it point and shoot and instead start concentrating on maximizing my speed in the corners (drive it like a Miata). That epiphany had me drop a 1 sec from my last run of the morning.

Cam's the real genius at picking cars :) Corvette is apparently always the right answer eh Terry?

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Re: Re: Scores for September 17, 2017 event at YYC
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2017, 08:04:19 PM »
I also do acknowledge that any normally aspirated car is at a distinct disadvantage at Calgary's altitude but that does not directly affect my car buying decisions :)

JamesTCallaghan

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Re: Re: Scores for September 17, 2017 event at YYC
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2017, 08:41:29 PM »
When I walked the course (four times total) I really thought it would be a power course but in practice driving it, it really wasn't. The tight corners are a real challenge in being patient on the throttle to deal with exit understeer, and the fast quick direction change (last slalom cone on the second slalom) and the very first eyebrow were excersizes in getting the timing right of a quick squeeze of the brakes to get the front of my car turned in and the rear rotated around so I could be on the throttle fully immediately and take advantage of all wheel drive acceleration grip. I don't feel like I ever got that left hander exiting the second slalom or the final corner strung together well at all.

PedalFaster

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Re: Re: Scores for September 17, 2017 event at YYC
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2017, 08:55:51 PM »
Ryan's been grumbling my ear off all day, so let me share some of his thoughts on his behalf. :P

Firstly, here's a truer representation of the shape of the corner from his data: https://i.imgur.com/7bpcbd3.jpg.

Ryan points out that the line I drove (the blue line in B) actually covered more distance in addition to tightening the entrance to the sweeper. I think those are totally valid points.

He also points out that, although he shed about 20 kph for the kink, he gained all this speed back accelerating between the kink and the right-hand turn before having to brake again. While true, I think that with less than half the power, it would have been a lot harder for me to claw back any speed I shed going into the kink. I think it's reasonable to approach the kink slightly differently depending on the type of car being driven.

When I see Ryan at the top of the PAX scales in an ES Miata I'll retract my previous comments and agree with Stephen that the Miata is the car to have, until then Im not convinced.

I think you misunderstood what I said. I said (and maintain) that a Miata was the car to have on *that specific course at Fort Macleod*.  A course that's heavy on slaloms, and where you're only making relatively small speed adjustments between elements, favors nimble cars over powerful ones. Conversely, courses with lots of heavy braking followed by long, straight acceleration zones favor power cars over nimble ones. I thought this Sunday's courses were pretty well balanced.

Like Ryan, I also suspect that lower-powered cars, especially normally-aspirated ones, are at a disadvantage in general locally -- both because of the altitude, and also because Red Deer courses invariably include multiple pin turns followed by acceleration zones that favor powerful cars. If my goal was to win PAX for the season, then I wouldn't pick a car with less than 200 hp (or ideally 300 hp). But we do have courses at Fort Macleod where a low-power car can not only win, but is the favorite to win.
Stephen Hui

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Re: Technical Analysis for September 17, 2017 event at YYC
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2017, 09:29:13 PM »
Sorry, I sort of messed up splitting this topic ... missing the original post by Stephen so I'll try to recover that.

Anyway, this is such an interesting topic I thought we should separate it out so we can find it more easily later ... also that the topic deserved its' own title!

R

 

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