Passengers and the 3-run rule

[PedalFaster]

We have a new rule this year: only the first three runs on a given course configuration will be counted:

Run Scoring
For the 2018 season we will be putting additional pressure on competitors by only using their first 3 runs of the day towards the championship. This is being done to be more in line with larger US SCCA events where you only get three runs to make it count. Only the first three (3) runs of the day are scored unless the course is changed for the afternoon in which case the first three (3) runs of the morning and the first three (3) runs of the afternoon are scored.

I disagree with this rule, but I understand the intent (and have seen the same debate play out in Seattle).

Here's the thing: the goal of the 3-run rule is to make our events more like national-level events, where you only have 3 runs to get the job done. The 3-run format makes it critically important that you have effective course walks, and are able to immediately push your car to its limits on an unfamiliar course.

As it stands, though, we still allow passenger ride-alongs. Since we're reducing the number of counted runs, riding along with others will confer an even greater advantage than it did before -- it allows previewing the course, and learning how fast you can take specific elements, before you've taken any of your limited number of competition runs. Ride-alongs are not allowed at national-level events.

Allowing passenger ride-alongs directly contravenes the purpose of the 3-run rule. Given that, for consistency's sake it seems that we should either:

• keep the 3-run rule, and ban ride-alongs before fun runs, or
  
  
• continue allowing ride-alongs, and rescind the 3-run rule.

Personally, I'd vote for (2) -- I think it's more important to help each other improve by allowing ride-alongs than it is to exactly simulate a national-level event.

What do you all think?

[Dr Dave]

I agree with your option 2. If anyone is preparing for national level competition they can judge by their and everyone else's 3rd run as to how their doing, as well as be able to compare their run 3, to runs 4 and 5. And when runs 4 and 5 count, they'll be doing their competitive best, so they'll really be able to see if they're getting up to full speed after 3 runs. Only scoring the first 3 runs provides no benefit, other than helping a good (and likely experienced) driver win on the day as it may take others 5 runs to get up to full speed - 5 counted runs is even for everyone and gives the less experienced a better chance IMHO. Personally I'm not apt to make many if any 4th or 5th runs if they're just fun runs. If they don't count, just a little bit the of edge is missing for me. Lastly, in this part of world the ambient temperature is just getting high (hot) enough to get adequate temperature into slicks by the 4th run on most mornings.

[rairdan93]

I like option 2 better as well.  Keeps every run competitive not just the first 3. Makes it exciting right to the end.  Which I believe will benefit everyone more. Not just the top drivers or those who are travelling to the SCCA events. Either way it doesn't really matter to me but if I had to choose it would be option 2.   

[MurrayPeterson]

Option 3: Option 2 above plas set up a new group (OPAX, short for open pax) and have the drivers compete in that group if they wish.  Only the 1st 3 runs count in that group.

Of course, this doesn't help with deciding season championship winners

[Wayne Dyck]

ASN Canada FIA National Solosport Regulations Autoslalom
3.4.3. Official Number of Runs
There shall be a minimum of two (2) timed runs for each competitor at each event. There shall be no practice runs for any competitor entered in the event. There shall be a time period for Competitors to have an opportunity to walk the course prior to commencement of the first timed run of the event.

SCCA Solo Rules
7.3 Minimum of Three Runs
Each driver shall be allowed at least three (3) official timed runs per course, subject to severe circumstances beyond the control of the event organizers. Only the fastest official run per course will be scored.

The entire premise of Solo events, both ASN Canada and SCCA, is to score a single quickest time within a limited number of runs on a given course, not allowing pre-running of the course. The club hosts Competition Solo Events, not HPDE. Limited run timing and scoring matters.

Scored run limits benefit all competitors. Seasoned veterans, who travel to Championship style events, hone their focus and skills on fewer number of scored runs. Newer participants better understand the Solo Competition format earlier in their learning curve, preparing them for their first National style event.

This year the club increased the number of classes where points are awarded towards a year end champion. Not just a single club champion, but champions recognized in 6 distinctly different groups. The intent being to broaden the awards base and recognize more individuals and their driving abilities.

So, what's the answer... personally I favor limiting points scored runs to 3, or at the most 4, in the best interests of hosting competitive points scoring events. And I agree that allowing ride-alongs is good for driver development.

The best of both worlds IMHO.

[PedalFaster]

ASN Canada FIA National Solosport Regulations Autoslalom
3.4.3. Official Number of Runs
There shall be a minimum of two (2) timed runs for each competitor at each event. There shall be no practice runs for any competitor entered in the event. There shall be a time period for Competitors to have an opportunity to walk the course prior to commencement of the first timed run of the event.

Note that, while the Canadian and American rules both specify a minimum number of runs, neither specifies a maximum limit. You quoted the Canadian rule above; here's the American rule:

7.3 MINIMUM OF THREE RUNS
Each driver shall be allowed at least three (3) official timed runs per course, subject to severe circumstances beyond the control of the event organizers.

The entire premise of Solo events, both ASN Canada and SCCA, is to score a single quickest time within a limited number of runs on a given course, not allowing pre-running of the course.

Agreed, which is why I'm confused about why we've removed the allowance for course previewing that all competitors could easily take advantage of (scoring more than three runs) while retaining the allowance for course previewing that, practically speaking, only some can take advantage of (ride-alongs).

Are we trying to adhere to national-level rules and prevent previewing or not? If we are, we should limit to three runs *and* ban ride-alongs. If we're not, there's no need for a run limit or a prohibition on ride-alongs. Right now the rules are schizophrenic.

Newer participants better understand the Solo Competition format earlier in their learning curve, preparing them for their first National style event.

The vast majority of our competitors will never travel to a national-level event. Given that, this feels like we're compromising everyone's experience in order to provide a questionable benefit to a small subset of our participants.

[PedalFaster]

Option 3: Option 2 above plas set up a new group (OPAX, short for open pax) and have the drivers compete in that group if they wish.  Only the 1st 3 runs count in that group.

That's what Northwest Region did. Even limited to OPAX, the 3-run rule was probably the most controversial rule enacted in my fifteen years of running there, and it was rescinded after a few years.

[MurrayPeterson]

I think that there are unintended consequences here (at least, I think they are unintended).  I drive a very light and relatively low powered car (2017 Miata), which means a passenger's weight makes for a significant time penalty.  As a result, I am very unlikely to be giving people rides until after my three official runs are completed.  The result of that is that the people who are most in need of a ride won't get one until it is too late to do them any good (for that event).

So, yes, even with OPAX limited to the more competitive drivers, problems (my word) still arise.

[Sprockett]

My vote would also be to scrap the three run rule. Not sure who or when that discussion happened but...I think ride alongs are important to newbies in the club and less so taken by experienced people for the purpose of advantage. If we don’t allow ride alongs, the the wrong people lose out I think.

Also, I don’t remember the last time I took a fun run so dropping the event to only three runs counting will really just shorten my day If these locals are to be practice for some people as the point, fun runs are worthless...when they don’t count, they don’t count...

[SKI-R]

If I could 'up vote' Stephen's Reply #5, I would.....despite the fact I'll be a limited (potentially non existent) participant in the forthcoming season.  He summarizes my perception of things in a much more politic manner than I ever could!

[94boosted]

A poll has been added to this post.

[Reijo]

Think Stephen has a very good point in that the Seattle/NW Region of the SCCA has tried this before and it did not work very well ... or as intended.

Perhaps we should "learn" from their experiment and not repeat it.  No need to re-invent the wheel as they say.

Maybe we can have separate scoring listed/displayed/calculated for 3-official-runs (unofficial, of course but for the interest of those so inclined)?  Is that possible, Murray?

Reijo

[MurrayPeterson]

Yes, I can run a separate scoring output for 3 a run limit.  No problem; I will just auto-enroll everyone into the OPAX group.

[Reijo]

Yes, I can run a separate scoring output for 3 a run limit.  No problem; I will just auto-enroll everyone into the OPAX group.

Perfect!   

R

[Pat S]

At one of the Fort Macleod events last year there was an issue with the timing equipment so we just did fun runs for the afternoon. A significant amount of people chose not to participate in the fun runs, parking their cars for the afternoon or heading home.

If the afternoon runs don't count people may not want to run and will be forced to stay and work without running. It's a consequence of their choice, but wouldn't make for a very fun day in my opinion. Do participants also work at larger events where they only get three runs? (sorry, not familiar with how it works elsewhere).