Noise & Saftey

[Terry Johns]

I am becoming increasingly concerned about the noise and safety issues at some of the events run in Alberta. This doesn't include FM as I have yet to compete there.

If we have policy which requires strategic leadership to mitigate the clubs risk we have no need to confront people about their noisy cars. In the UK where I have spend the last 50 years involved in competitive Motorsport things are generally taken a lot more serious than in our very laid back culture here in Western Canada.

Eg. Typical UK Motorsport event. Drive in main gate and are directed to noise test, .05 meters behind car at 45% angle 3/4 of max revs, no more than 88 db. If you fail the noise test you cant even sign on for the event let alone get on on the Track.

Several years ago the CSCC lost the Westerner lot, due to noise issues primarily caused by a lack of incite on behalf of the clubs leadership, a lack of noise pollution policy and PR work around the local area. The westerly lot at the Westerner in Red Deer is one of the last remaining solo lots left in the province. If we don't come together as clubs that use this lot and have a corporate policy on safety & noise then I fear we are travelling down a road that will soon come to an end.

Your thoughts.

[E6Cueman]

The last 50 years! Hats off to you sir...

In my time being involved here, I can count 7 different venues that have been used and lost, so obviously there is a problem.

I agree that we should be checking sound.  I believe the club has the equipment... is it too challenging to administer?

While engine noise is the most obvious sound issue, and maybe the easiest to manage, tire noise seems to draw many complaints as well.  To me, that seems a little more challenging to reduce...

[James@SpecR]

I agree on the noise part.  Some cars are just ridiculous when they go by.

[NickST]

I'd be in favor of having a Decibel noise tester/meter on site and running on the first set of runs, then notifying any cars owners that are exceeding the allowable levels so they can make adjustments or changes for the next event.

So far this year none of the cars I've seen have been excessively noisy though

[94boosted]

Per 2015 SCCA Solo National Rules:

The maximum limit will be 100 dBA.
The measurement will be taken at a point where the vehicle can reasonably be expected to be under load at full throttle. The measuring point will be 50 feet from the edge of the course using an ANSI Type 2 sound meter set to “A” weighting, “Slow” response. The microphone will be 3 to 4 feet above ground level, positioned perpendicular to vehicle direction of travel. The microphone will be away from structures (e.g., buildings) as is practical.

100dB, 50' to the side of a car at full throttle is a ridiculously loud car. I'm certain we don't have anything that comes anywhere near that. And I don't believe we have any local supplemental regs that state lower. The club does have testing equipment, though I don't think we've used it in a long time.

I think when we lost Grey Eagle it was more so to do with tire squeal noise not the exhaust noise like E6Cueman said.

[Reijo]

Yes, the Grey Eagle was lost due one local a couple of blocks in from Glenmore Trail who raised a stink by showing up at the Grey Eagle to complain to them as well as calling the police (they do not have jurisdiction on the reserve, btw).  He also showed up at a Corvette club event at Grey Eagle and got into a shouting match with one of the attendees apparently.

Based on past testing at Red Deer I "know for a fact" that the Glenmore traffic is louder than the competition going on.  However the problem is that he could hear the squealing tires and cars on full throttle.   The sound is distinct and you can distinquish it from the ambient noise from traffic.  I believe he likely is used to the constant drone/noise from the traffic on Glenmore and does not pay attention to it.  The problem for him is likely that he can hear it at all.  He simply does not want to hear at all which means it is almost impossible to please him.   The volume would have to be effectively be "zero".....which would be hard to achieve unless perhaps we all ran R-compounds or full-on slicks which would make no squealing noises unless someone loses control of a skid.

There are some people whom we will never please so I don't think there is any point trying to appease them.  They will never be happy.  They do not care about us at all and whether we have a place to run or not ... out of sight, out of mind. 

There are limitations to political correctness and I think this is one of those situations.

If all places listened to all complaints, we would have no place to run.  Period.

[Sprockett]

While this might the blanket rules yes, it still allows for stupidly loud cars. Sound sensitive sites and areas are free to impose whatever restrictions they see fit. San Diego and Packwood for example adhere to a strictly enforced 93dB limit.

As I'm changing the exhaust on the vette, I'm interested to have the dB meter brought out to the next event to confirm it remains well under 93dB. Who has this?

Thanks,
Ryan

Per 2015 SCCA Solo National Rules:

The maximum limit will be 100 dBA.
The measurement will be taken at a point where the vehicle can reasonably be expected to be under load at full throttle. The measuring point will be 50 feet from the edge of the course using an ANSI Type 2 sound meter set to “A” weighting, “Slow” response. The microphone will be 3 to 4 feet above ground level, positioned perpendicular to vehicle direction of travel. The microphone will be away from structures (e.g., buildings) as is practical.

100dB, 50' to the side of a car at full throttle is a ridiculously loud car. I'm certain we don't have anything that comes anywhere near that. And I don't believe we have any local supplemental regs that state lower. The club does have testing equipment, though I don't think we've used it in a long time.

I think when we lost Grey Eagle it was more so to do with tire squeal noise not the exhaust noise like E6Cueman said.

[Terry Johns]

I think for me this isn't about the rule book its about being reasonable, courteous  and considerate to others as well as being a good steward of the lots we have. That will require and investment and polices which will go some way in insuring we don't loose any more lots due to a lack of effective leadership. Safety as I said in my original post is also another major concern I have particularly at the Westerner. We have cars at the Westerner doing in some cases 100km in a parking lot that has the general public walking around, no disclaimer signs, no one perimeter tape. Its a recipe for a big problem.

The first thing we need to do is get a thing tank together. 

[majormojo]

Events here don't run under SCCA rules, they run under WCMA/ASN rules. ASN sound rule is this:

ASN Canada FIA National SoloSport Regulations AutoSlalom 2015 14 of 272

3.3.13. Noise Limit

The ASN AutoSlalom noise limit is 96db unless there is an alternate noise limit for that
facility/track listed in these regulations, Appendix I or if the territory has a different noise
limit. National event organizers may apply to ASN for an alternate noise limit depending
on event location, but such application must be approved by ASN prior to event
Supplementary Regulations being published.

Unfortunately, ASN Autoslalom regs don't specify how the sound is to be measured. I carry a sound meter in my Autox toolbox just because I have one. I've occasionally measured cars as loud as 105dB. It's probably a good idea for clubs to have their own meters and use them any time there is a concern. Losing a good venue is something nobody wants.

[94boosted]

Events here don't run under SCCA rules, they run under WCMA/ASN rules. ASN sound rule is this:

ASN Canada FIA National SoloSport Regulations AutoSlalom 2015 14 of 272

3.3.13. Noise Limit

The ASN AutoSlalom noise limit is 96db unless there is an alternate noise limit for that
facility/track listed in these regulations, Appendix I or if the territory has a different noise
limit. National event organizers may apply to ASN for an alternate noise limit depending
on event location, but such application must be approved by ASN prior to event
Supplementary Regulations being published.

Unfortunately, ASN Autoslalom regs don't specify how the sound is to be measured. I carry a sound meter in my Autox toolbox just because I have one. I've occasionally measured cars as loud as 105dB. It's probably a good idea for clubs to have their own meters and use them any time there is a concern. Losing a good venue is something nobody wants.

Interesting, I didn't know that 

I'm amazed they don't specify a method for measuring SPL. A showroom stock Toyota Prius could exceed 96dB if the measurement device was close enough to the sound source.

[MurrayPeterson]

ASN does specify that sound measurement is to be done at a distance of 50 feet (section 5.9), but nothing further.  SCCA specifies the same 50 feet, but at right angles and vehicle under full throttle.

[Terry Johns]

The north lot at the Westerner was lost to noise pollution back in 2006 due as I said to poor leadership decisions and residential housing just across the street, even 90 dB at that lot may have been to loud.

In the UK the national track day association set a limit of 87dB

[Terry Johns]

As I see it, it becomes way more problematic to do sound testing once cars have been entered into an event, as its now a potential confrontation and the risk of creating offence. Its much easier to have a policy that each entrant arrives at the lot, goes directly to the noise station, gets signed off by the noise marshal and then signs on at registration.  Without the noise station voucher you cant sign on. Simple.

[Reijo]

I'm closing this topic since there is a lot more to this than can be discussed here without a lot of hassle.

And, btw, Terry, that assessment of what happened at Red Deer when we lost the lot is incorrect.  Let's talk over a beer at the next event and I'll give you a low-down on what happened (I was there when it happened and there is more to the story that is best not getting into here).

No one wants to lose lots, of course.  That we can agree on.

Thanks,