Classing - Aero Kit in STX

[Joe-G]

I just realized that I have some aero accents added to my car that may actually put me out of STX. I added the front/side/rear/trunk lips way before I had the intentions of Autocrossing the car.

Im sure it doesnt really make a big difference, and Im sure nobody really cares at local events... But with regionals/nationals does it matter? Its not like they're functional pieces that add more downforce...

I have a replica kit of the TRD front, side, rear, and trunk lips installed.

These pieces are not available in an OEM US/CDN catalog. However, they are offered as additions in the TRD Japan catalog as offered through Toyota AFAIK, and are available for order at most Toyota/Scion dealerships so long as they are willing/try hard to order the pieces in.

With that in mind, am I really out of STX and supposed to be in SM? Will anyone care at regionals/nationals if I class in STX? Its not like im hiding a blower/have other illegal performance mods.

But! Scion NA did introduce the FRS RS1.0 (Release series) this year, which does sport a similar TRD body kit. With that in mind, is there any leeway in that regard?

Any help is appreciated! Thanks!

[MurrayPeterson]

Sadly, what other cars can get won't help you in any way.  The only way those aero bits are legal is if they were available as a factory or port installed option for your model.  Dealer installed options don't count (e.g. I cannot have the little 1 inch trunk spoiler on my car, since it was only offered at dealerships).  The rules, they be strict...

[MurrayPeterson]

I should add that nobody will care about this at local events.  It might even pass at the Nationals, but you are definitely taking a chance at being protested.  Especially if you are in the trophies.

[Reijo]

Some are designed with aero in mind - like the Honda S2000CR.  And, they work.  If you have a non-CR, you cannot bolt those on in street classes.

The rules allow for some comfort and convenience items etc. however .... but mostly that covers a hitch for a trailer (yeah, they mention that separately even though you are adding weight and slowing the car down ... but could be used for ballast for balance), coffee cup holders, an aftermarket stereo (heavier than stock), style of wheel (but must essentially be same offset, width and diameter as stock), etc.

By adding pieces you are probably adding weight and slowing the car down however it is a bit of a slippery slope since some of the aero aids actually do work.  At the lower speeds the effect may be minimal but who knows for sure without wind tunnel testing?

It comes down to the rule about, if doesn't say you can do it, then you cannot.

Reijo

[Reijo]

I should add that nobody will care about this at local events.  It might even pass at the Nationals, but you are definitely taking a chance at being protested.  Especially if you are in the trophies.

I'd agree with Murray here about not being a big issue at the local club level although if someone wanted to make an issue of it, they could and rightfully so.

However you definitely start to see protests at the regional level and most definitely at the National level (Canadian or US - I have worked on a protest committee and know this has happened for a fact!).  This probability of protest increases if you trophy (contingencies, money etc. are at stake now as well as more prestige etc.)!  At SCCA National Tours/Pros and Nationals it wouldn't fly at all.... no pun intended!    Note that there are contingencies/money available at the regional level and even club level (Scion)! 

Just an additional note here:  As I believe Murray already mentioned above, you might even get away with "something" not too blatantly obvious at the National level.  However, if you should trophy, all of a sudden you will get attention and people start to wonder what makes you "so fast".  That is where the scrutiny begins.  A quick glance over a car by a trained eye familiar with the cars, will quickly reveal any glaring missing parts or additional parts.  If there are some "little" things not right, then that indicates a "carelessness" on the part of the competitor and also leads to more in-depth searching (If they don't worry about the "little" things, then it implies that maybe they are "careless" about some "bigger" items ...).  In some cases they will even observe your runs closely or some friends will perhaps be noticing better acceleration or handling characteristics of your car.  They will ask around.  In some cases, it will also be apparent if you are simply out-driving your opponents or driving a better line maybe just in one corner even ... (interested in the course design seminar yet?  ).

Maybe another way to think of this issue is where did the parts come from?  Not available as an option from the manufacturer?  = Not legal for street classes.

For example, some individual dealers will bolt on different sized wheels, even 'chargers and other things not available at other dealers although some items are - not legal.

In your case, this particular kit is available from TRD - Toyota Racing Development.  That already has a "bad" implication - e.g. that there is some degree of functionality which is not a good sign.

I recall a couple or three (or more?) years ago some SoCal folks did some testing of aero bits wondering if they worked or not (in SP cars if I recall correctly).  In the beginning they had their doubts whether the air dam/splitter and rear spoiler actually made much difference due to the low autox speeds.  On the track it is a given that aero bits definitely work due to the higher overall speeds.  However, in this particular testing on an autox course,  I do recall that the difference was measurable time-wise!  I'll admit I was a little bit surprised myself and had expected the time difference to almost disappear in the "noise" or tiny driver errors.  It was a number of tenths of seconds on a "typical" course and easily seen in the times!

Well, I digress!  The dealers also sell springs and other go-fast pieces that work (TRD in this case) ... which are definitely not legal in street (stock) classes.

From a rules perspective, there has to be a line somewhere and, as mentioned elsewhere, this is where it is:  If the rules do not (explicitly) say you can do it, you cannot.  This makes the rules as fair as possible for everyone.

How easy are these items to remove (even temporarily?)?

Note that if there are holes drilled they would not look very good cosmetically and technically they would not be legal either.  However you could cover them up with tape to prevent corrosion and penetration if it rains etc.  I doubt anyone would protest them, of course, since that would be considered a "wienie" protest.

My apologies about all the info but it's late at night and I have nothing better to do .... well, that isn't true either!  hahaha....

Anyway, it is good you asked since it gives us an example to discuss and clarify how rules work - for all of us.

Thanks,

R

[Joe-G]

I should add that nobody will care about this at local events.  It might even pass at the Nationals, but you are definitely taking a chance at being protested.  Especially if you are in the trophies.

I'm not exactly hoping to place high, or be in the trophies... but I do respect rules.

I guess my question has been answered.

[Joe-G]

I should add that nobody will care about this at local events.  It might even pass at the Nationals, but you are definitely taking a chance at being protested.  Especially if you are in the trophies.

However you definitely start to see protests at the regional level and most definitely at the National level (Canadian or US - I have worked on a protest committee and know this has happened for a fact!).  This probability of protest increases if you trophy (contingencies, money etc. are at stake now as well as more prestige etc.)!  At SCCA National Tours/Pros and Nationals it wouldn't fly at all.... no pun intended!    Note that there are contingencies/money available at the regional level and even club level (Scion)! 

From a rules perspective, there has to be a line somewhere and, as mentioned elsewhere, this is where it is:  If the rules do not (explicitly) say you can do it, you cannot.  This makes the rules as fair as possible for everyone.

How easy are these items to remove (even temporarily?)?

Note that if there are holes drilled they would not look very good cosmetically and technically they would not be legal either.  However you could cover them up with tape to prevent corrosion and penetration if it rains etc.  I doubt anyone would protest them, of course, since that would be considered a "wienie" protest.

My apologies about all the info but it's late at night and I have nothing better to do .... well, that isn't true either!  hahaha....

Anyway, it is good you asked since it gives us an example to discuss and clarify how rules work - for all of us.

Thanks,

R

I was recently accepted into the Scion Racing Contingency, just waiting on all the material so it definitely makes sense to adhere to the rules. Come to think of it, I should probably contact them to change my class.

Parts aren't too bad to remove, but it would be moot as the rear bumper had to have chunks cut out in order to fit the rear aero...

Really helpful advice guys. I appreciate your helpful replies. I had a gut feeling that the the aero wasn't legal... Guess my question is answered.

[E6Cueman]

I should add that nobody will care about this at local events.  It might even pass at the Nationals, but you are definitely taking a chance at being protested.  Especially if you are in the trophies.

However you definitely start to see protests at the regional level and most definitely at the National level (Canadian or US - I have worked on a protest committee and know this has happened for a fact!).  This probability of protest increases if you trophy (contingencies, money etc. are at stake now as well as more prestige etc.)!  At SCCA National Tours/Pros and Nationals it wouldn't fly at all.... no pun intended!    Note that there are contingencies/money available at the regional level and even club level (Scion)! 

From a rules perspective, there has to be a line somewhere and, as mentioned elsewhere, this is where it is:  If the rules do not (explicitly) say you can do it, you cannot.  This makes the rules as fair as possible for everyone.

How easy are these items to remove (even temporarily?)?

Note that if there are holes drilled they would not look very good cosmetically and technically they would not be legal either.  However you could cover them up with tape to prevent corrosion and penetration if it rains etc.  I doubt anyone would protest them, of course, since that would be considered a "wienie" protest.

My apologies about all the info but it's late at night and I have nothing better to do .... well, that isn't true either!  hahaha....

Anyway, it is good you asked since it gives us an example to discuss and clarify how rules work - for all of us.

Thanks,

R

I was recently accepted into the Scion Racing Contingency, just waiting on all the material so it definitely makes sense to adhere to the rules. Come to think of it, I should probably contact them to change my class.

Parts aren't too bad to remove, but it would be moot as the rear bumper had to have chunks cut out in order to fit the rear aero...

Really helpful advice guys. I appreciate your helpful replies. I had a gut feeling that the the aero wasn't legal... Guess my question is answered.

Can you advise me on how to get in on the Scion contingency?  Looking around I couldn't find any info on their 2015 program.

In my mind, the RS1.0 is an option, so I was thinking your parts were legal as they are something that Scion itself offers.  What Reijo says about the S2000 CR contradicts that though.  Cross STX off my list then...

If they are not legal... to keep them you need to go all the way to SM??

[Joe-G]

I should add that nobody will care about this at local events.  It might even pass at the Nationals, but you are definitely taking a chance at being protested.  Especially if you are in the trophies.

However you definitely start to see protests at the regional level and most definitely at the National level (Canadian or US - I have worked on a protest committee and know this has happened for a fact!).  This probability of protest increases if you trophy (contingencies, money etc. are at stake now as well as more prestige etc.)!  At SCCA National Tours/Pros and Nationals it wouldn't fly at all.... no pun intended!    Note that there are contingencies/money available at the regional level and even club level (Scion)! 

From a rules perspective, there has to be a line somewhere and, as mentioned elsewhere, this is where it is:  If the rules do not (explicitly) say you can do it, you cannot.  This makes the rules as fair as possible for everyone.

How easy are these items to remove (even temporarily?)?

Note that if there are holes drilled they would not look very good cosmetically and technically they would not be legal either.  However you could cover them up with tape to prevent corrosion and penetration if it rains etc.  I doubt anyone would protest them, of course, since that would be considered a "wienie" protest.

My apologies about all the info but it's late at night and I have nothing better to do .... well, that isn't true either!  hahaha....

Anyway, it is good you asked since it gives us an example to discuss and clarify how rules work - for all of us.

Thanks,

R

I was recently accepted into the Scion Racing Contingency, just waiting on all the material so it definitely makes sense to adhere to the rules. Come to think of it, I should probably contact them to change my class.

Parts aren't too bad to remove, but it would be moot as the rear bumper had to have chunks cut out in order to fit the rear aero...

Really helpful advice guys. I appreciate your helpful replies. I had a gut feeling that the the aero wasn't legal... Guess my question is answered.

Can you advise me on how to get in on the Scion contingency?  Looking around I couldn't find any info on their 2015 program.

In my mind, the RS1.0 is an option, so I was thinking your parts were legal as they are something that Scion itself offers.  What Reijo says about the S2000 CR contradicts that though.  Cross STX off my list then...

If they are not legal... to keep them you need to go all the way to SM??

Go to the link below, complete the participation agreement and email/fax it to the addresses listed in the agreement. I kind of harassed them via email for replies, so I'm not sure if doing that would benefit you as well.

You could probably also CC PRisden@beyondmg.ca, who is in charge of the SRCP (same person that will reply to your application) if you want to expedite the process.

http://www.scion.ca/scion/en/lifestyle/racing-contingency

Unfortunately, that seems to be the case. At least I can get that purrty big GT wing I've always wanted to slap onto my car! hehehe lol...

As for being competitive, I still need a lot to work on anyways. Not really expecting to do well... but hey, sometimes it feels good to not be last :T.

[nnywg]

I'm not exactly hoping to place high, or be in the trophies... but I do respect rules.

I guess my question has been answered.

Good call, this is my philosophy as well.  It's got the same fun-factor regardless of what class you're in. 

[Tuna]

Well, I digress!  The dealers also sell springs and other go-fast pieces that work (TRD in this case) ... which are definitely not legal in street (stock) classes.

Ah, they are now... See the May Fast Track:

Street
#16626, 16639, 16670, 16672, 16673, 16675, 16684, 16693, 16703, 16706 Scion Port Install Package Documentation Clarification
The SEB in conjunction with the SAC and the National Staff have been investigating the details of port installed options for the Scion FRS MY 2013-2015. Specifically, the TRD lowering springs P/N PTR07-18130 and TRD Sway Bar Kit P/N PTR11-18130. It has been determined both kits were available as port installed options for 2013-2015 Scion FR-S models, and thus they are compliant for use on a Scion FR-S in C Street.

[E6Cueman]

Thanks Joe.

[Reijo]

Hmmm.....that is pretty big allowing different springs ... but you have to make sure they are the specific and "right" ones .. .nothing stiffer etc. .....    Miata and Solstice had similar items.....

R

[Reijo]

Keep your receipts for proof ... mind you the springs may be marked as well.

R

[Midnightsky]

Im glad this topic came up.  I am looking at a vehicle next Tuesday with a not so stock rear bumper lol guess that makes it SM haha.  Somehow I think pax will be against me now lol.   O well, I'll chase classing and trophies later in life

Wait doed this mean I have to run in the SM group too? lol don't do that to me im too slow.......classified as SM but run me in the ST bunch?