Street Class a no brainer

[JamesTCallaghan]

Buy a FiST and run H-street against my Mazda 3 next year bring back the battle of H-street

Find me a FiST I can lease and I'll take that challenge.

Ford.ca? Airdrie Ford? Calgary Ford? Are you saying they won't lease you a FiST?

Production has finished for FiST and the new model is not being sold in North America. Combine that with horrible lease residuals and it's fairly impossible to lease one. When I was looking it was $700+ a month for a three year lease vs $454/month for my WRX.

Team Ford in Edmonton has one that they will finance for 7 years at under $400 a month.

Not bad, still a fair amount of interest. I see the lease residuals must have changed for the better as the online build config is showing $425/month for a 3 year 20k/year $0 down lease.

[Midnightsky]

I'm hoping a 15-17 mustang gt can compete with that damn m3 next year!  The street classes have such a variety of performance between the cars in their classes and I personally feel that the newer M3, the new camaro and new mustang don't really fit in with the other FS cars. But thats just because my 05 mustang is out dated in every way to compete with the 2011+.  Unless you are like Cam it seems like you have to have the latest and greatest models to have a chance. I fully understand the driver has a lot to do with it but it definitely seems to help having a car that is at the top of its class.  That 2011 M3 seems to have such a good balance of power and handling. Such a beautiful car appearance wise as well. If I would allow myself to get a European car it would be the one. I see the 2017 camaro ss 1le with mag suspension(like the new covettes i believe) is up in AS. I imagine the 2018 mustang gt with the shelby gt350 suspension will be in AS as well.  I feel I did pretty good in my 05 last year but I feel like a newer one will give me the edge I need to maybe(big maybe) scare Cam and be at the top like Richard has done this year in his M3.  Only time will tell. 

From what I've gathered the E92 M3 ZCP is still competitive in FS but the top dog is the '17 Camaro SS. I doubt it gets reclassed separately from the '17+ Camaro SS/'16 1LE, and Mustang GT, as there is still a decent balance of performance. The Camaro fits wider tires, and has more low/mid torque. The E92 is heavy for the amount of tire, but narrow bodied and has less instrusive ABS. The Mustang is just a half step behind but that may change with the '18 depending on where it ends up.

FS may get its relative PAX changed, but I would guess (and hope) that the new '17+ Camaro 1LE, Mustang GT350, and F80 M3/M4 will all stay classed outside of the current group in FS.

2015-17 Mustang GT with the Performance Package (PP) can only hit 58MPH in 2nd with the tire of choice (275/35/19-RE71R) that’s the limiting factor for the car otherwise it would truly be right up there neck and neck with the M3 and Camaro SS.

For 2018 the Mustang GT gets a 500RPM increase in redline and most likely will keep the same gearing meaning it’s top speed in 2nd should be close to 63MPH, a decent improvement, will it be enough is the question. For 2018 it also gets a 30hp/20ft-lbs power bump, a slicker manual trans (dual mass flywheel and twin disc clutch) the addition of a 10 speed auto that’s supposed to be really good (co-developed w/ GM, same trans as new Camaro ZL1 and Ford Raptor) as well the mag shocks from the Shelby Mustang 350, from everything I’ve read it sounds like it’s staying in FS with the above mentioned changes.

There’s also rumors of a Level 2 Performance Package on the 18’ Mustang GT that won’t be out until “later”, this Level 2 PP will for sure have 0.5” wider wheels (9.5F & 10R) as well as some other unknown changes, the question is whether or not the PP Level 2 car, which is rumored to compete against the 2016-18 Camaro SS 1LE will stay classed in FS or get bumped out.

My 2017 Mazda3 2.5L does 58MPH in 2nd zoom zoom baby

[Reijo]

Not sure I understand the question, but I owned and ran an E46 M3 in 2014: http://www.sccaforums.com/forums/aft/446609.

Came in sixth at Nationals, 0.8 seconds behind the winner (who was driving a then-brand-new previous-generation Camaro 1LE).

haha....I was referring to the DS 4cyl turbo or 6cyl. Camaro ... It is shocking to think it is so close to the FS cars!   

R

[Type_Yarr]

2015-17 Mustang GT with the Performance Package (PP) can only hit 58MPH in 2nd with the tire of choice (275/35/19-RE71R) that’s the limiting factor for the car otherwise it would truly be right up there neck and neck with the M3 and Camaro SS.

For 2018 the Mustang GT gets a 500RPM increase in redline and most likely will keep the same gearing meaning it’s top speed in 2nd should be close to 63MPH, a decent improvement, will it be enough is the question.

To give you an FS reference point from this last weekend, according to our data I was topping out 2nd at 108kph (67mph) on our short 275/35/18s. This was both exiting the L-eyebrows on the way down to the gate you opened up in the afternoon, and on the last dash to the finish. I spent a total of 7.0s out of a 71.845s scratch time at or above 101kph (63mph).

That being said, the last couple Ft. Macleod courses have had some very fast sections. I never got over 63mph at Westerner on Aug 6, and I've never topped out 2nd at YYC (though I haven't run data there yet). I'll definitely share our findings if it helps you decide on the Mustang. Oh and the speed data I'm using is based on 10Hz GPS, not OBD wheel speed.

[PedalFaster]

Note that the fastest Mustang times in the test I linked above were set in third gear. The car's got a *lot* of torque, so running out of second gear early isn't as big a disadvantage as it would be in most other cars.

[94boosted]

2015-17 Mustang GT with the Performance Package (PP) can only hit 58MPH in 2nd with the tire of choice (275/35/19-RE71R) that’s the limiting factor for the car otherwise it would truly be right up there neck and neck with the M3 and Camaro SS.

For 2018 the Mustang GT gets a 500RPM increase in redline and most likely will keep the same gearing meaning it’s top speed in 2nd should be close to 63MPH, a decent improvement, will it be enough is the question.

To give you an FS reference point from this last weekend, according to our data I was topping out 2nd at 108kph (67mph) on our short 275/35/18s. This was both exiting the L-eyebrows on the way down to the gate you opened up in the afternoon, and on the last dash to the finish. I spent a total of 7.0s out of a 71.845s scratch time at or above 101kph (63mph).

That being said, the last couple Ft. Macleod courses have had some very fast sections. I never got over 63mph at Westerner on Aug 6, and I've never topped out 2nd at YYC (though I haven't run data there yet). I'll definitely share our findings if it helps you decide on the Mustang. Oh and the speed data I'm using is based on 10Hz GPS, not OBD wheel speed.

Thanks Richard, good to know. Fort Macleod definitely tends to be a fast venue, and those last two courses (July & last Sunday) especially. Did you use 3rd at all or kept it in 2nd the whole time? I personally hate shifting to 3rd, it's cost me dearly in my car over the years time wise due to a missed shift

Note that the fastest Mustang times in the test I linked above were set in third gear. The car's got a *lot* of torque, so running out of second gear early isn't as big a disadvantage as it would be in most other cars.

Stephen, good point, I'm really just going off of the big 50 page 2015 Mustang thread on that other forum and the prevailing issue seems to be a short 2nd, I think an extra 5MPH could really help the car. If it's a matter of putting it and 3rd and leaving it that's great but if you have to go 2->3, 3->2, 2->3 in a course for the slow stuff that's costing you time.

[Reijo]

Not sure I understand the question, but I owned and ran an E46 M3 in 2014: http://www.sccaforums.com/forums/aft/446609.

Came in sixth at Nationals, 0.8 seconds behind the winner (who was driving a then-brand-new previous-generation Camaro 1LE).

haha....I was referring to the DS 4cyl turbo or 6cyl. Camaro ... It is shocking to think it is so close to the FS cars!



R

After this morning's Pro Finale runs, Scroggs in his DS Camaro is beating all the FS Camaros by 0.2 sec. ... turbo 4 cyl.   

He would be 2nd in FS ...   

R

[rairdan93]

2015-17 Mustang GT with the Performance Package (PP) can only hit 58MPH in 2nd with the tire of choice (275/35/19-RE71R) that’s the limiting factor for the car otherwise it would truly be right up there neck and neck with the M3 and Camaro SS.

For 2018 the Mustang GT gets a 500RPM increase in redline and most likely will keep the same gearing meaning it’s top speed in 2nd should be close to 63MPH, a decent improvement, will it be enough is the question.

To give you an FS reference point from this last weekend, according to our data I was topping out 2nd at 108kph (67mph) on our short 275/35/18s. This was both exiting the L-eyebrows on the way down to the gate you opened up in the afternoon, and on the last dash to the finish. I spent a total of 7.0s out of a 71.845s scratch time at or above 101kph (63mph).

That being said, the last couple Ft. Macleod courses have had some very fast sections. I never got over 63mph at Westerner on Aug 6, and I've never topped out 2nd at YYC (though I haven't run data there yet). I'll definitely share our findings if it helps you decide on the Mustang. Oh and the speed data I'm using is based on 10Hz GPS, not OBD wheel speed.

Thanks Richard, good to know. Fort Macleod definitely tends to be a fast venue, and those last two courses (July & last Sunday) especially. Did you use 3rd at all or kept it in 2nd the whole time? I personally hate shifting to 3rd, it's cost me dearly in my car over the years time wise due to a missed shift

Note that the fastest Mustang times in the test I linked above were set in third gear. The car's got a *lot* of torque, so running out of second gear early isn't as big a disadvantage as it would be in most other cars.

Stephen, good point, I'm really just going off of the big 50 page 2015 Mustang thread on that other forum and the prevailing issue seems to be a short 2nd, I think an extra 5MPH could really help the car. If it's a matter of putting it and 3rd and leaving it that's great but if you have to go 2->3, 3->2, 2->3 in a course for the slow stuff that's costing you time.

I've hit 66mph in second in a 2015 Mustang GT PP when it hits the rev limiter with stock tires. The stock tires are 1" taller overall than 275/35r19 re71r tires.  My calculator is telling me the re71r tires should still hit 63mph in second.  For me personally I feel the car will save me time everywhere else on the track, compared to my 05 GT, that making a shift up to third won't lose me enough time for it to be a huge concern of mine.  I'm waiting for the 2018 to be released to see if there is a big enough difference between them and the 15-17 to make it worth spending $25k more for a new one.  The price difference alone will probably keep me in a used 15 or 16.  If a car comes with staggered rims like the mustang are you allowed to run the rear rims on the front in street class? So the 15-17 mustangs rear 9.5" wheels on the front so you have 9.5" on all for corners? If the offset allows them to fit without spacers that is.

[PedalFaster]

If a car comes with staggered rims like the mustang are you allowed to run the rear rims on the front in street class?

Not legal -- you have to run the stock wheel widths front and rear.

[PedalFaster]

I've hit 66mph in second in a 2015 Mustang GT PP when it hits the rev limiter with stock tires. The stock tires are 1" taller overall than 275/35r19 re71r tires.  My calculator is telling me the re71r tires should still hit 63mph in second.

Keep in mind that stock speedometers always read high. The concern about the short second gear isn't a hypothetical one -- quite a few guys have prepared and run the car, including a friend of mine who came in third in FS at Nats in 2015.

You're absolutely right that the 2015 will still murder your car, but Tom's absolutely right that the 2018 car squeezing a bit of extra speed out of the gear can do nothing but help.

[MurrayPeterson]

Interesting how current course designs are favouring cars with large torque and a fast 2nd gear.  I do know that my Miata has lots of torque, but that 2-3 shift for faster courses makes it not as competitive (in PAX) as I would like.

[Type_Yarr]

Thanks Richard, good to know. Fort Macleod definitely tends to be a fast venue, and those last two courses (July & last Sunday) especially. Did you use 3rd at all or kept it in 2nd the whole time? I personally hate shifting to 3rd, it's cost me dearly in my car over the years time wise due to a missed shift

On the way down I kept it in 2nd, but a split second longer on the limiter and I think 3rd would have been worth the extra downshift into the right hand eyebrow. It was close enough that I thought about whether it would be faster on every run but each time ended up deciding against it. I would guess that in the Mustang it would have been required to set a competitive time through that section. I did use 3rd through the last elements to the finish at both events though.

How well setup is the Mustang for heeltoeing? Some people say BMWs have awesome pedal setups, but I find the e92 throttle is awkwardly placed compared to some other cars.

[Reijo]

Thanks Richard, good to know. Fort Macleod definitely tends to be a fast venue, and those last two courses (July & last Sunday) especially. Did you use 3rd at all or kept it in 2nd the whole time? I personally hate shifting to 3rd, it's cost me dearly in my car over the years time wise due to a missed shift

On the way down I kept it in 2nd, but a split second longer on the limiter and I think 3rd would have been worth the extra downshift into the right hand eyebrow. It was close enough that I thought about whether it would be faster on every run but each time ended up deciding against it. I would guess that in the Mustang it would have been required to set a competitive time through that section. I did use 3rd through the last elements to the finish at both events though.

How well setup is the Mustang for heeltoeing? Some people say BMWs have awesome pedal setups, but I find the e92 throttle is awkwardly placed compared to some other cars.

I have driven a number of Mustangs (schools) over the years and don't recall any problems with pedals and I heel/toe as a matter of course in anything I drive.

Reijo

[PedalFaster]

What we should do is buy one of each. Richard's already got an M3, Tom's thinking about a Camaro, now we just need takers for a 2018 Mustang and either a previous-generation Boss Mustang and s previous-generation 1LE Camaro. We can swap cars throughout the year, then bring the fastest two to Lincoln a year from now and codrive them.

[94boosted]

Thanks Richard, good to know. Fort Macleod definitely tends to be a fast venue, and those last two courses (July & last Sunday) especially. Did you use 3rd at all or kept it in 2nd the whole time? I personally hate shifting to 3rd, it's cost me dearly in my car over the years time wise due to a missed shift

On the way down I kept it in 2nd, but a split second longer on the limiter and I think 3rd would have been worth the extra downshift into the right hand eyebrow. It was close enough that I thought about whether it would be faster on every run but each time ended up deciding against it. I would guess that in the Mustang it would have been required to set a competitive time through that section. I did use 3rd through the last elements to the finish at both events though.

How well setup is the Mustang for heeltoeing? Some people say BMWs have awesome pedal setups, but I find the e92 throttle is awkwardly placed compared to some other cars.

Good to know. Are after market pedals legal in street? In my Corvette some aftermarket autocross specific pedals were a God send.

What we should do is buy one of each. Richard's already got an M3, Tom's thinking about a Camaro, now we just need takers for a 2018 Mustang and either a previous-generation Boss Mustang and s previous-generation 1LE Camaro. We can swap cars throughout the year, then bring the fastest two to Lincoln a year from now and codrive them.

I drove a 17' Camaro SS and wasn't a fan at all, couldn't see a thing out of the car and it felt huge even though I know it's dimensionally smaller than the 5th Gen cars. Me buying a Ford would be a tough mental hurdle but I'm really liking the idea of an 18' Mustang GT PP, we'll see.

 I know Ken drove a Boss 302 and didn't love it maybe I can convince him to get a 5th Gen 1LE