Results for October 8, 2016 event at YYC

[MurrayPeterson]

http://members.shaw.ca/murray.autocross/2016/2016_10_08__scores.txt

Wet, cold, and foggy all day, but a successful day.  Timing worked impeccably (well, a few glitches due to USB cables losing their connection, but only 2 or 3 reruns all day).

58 drivers, 9 runs each, and we were done by 3:00 P.M.

[andythebruce]

That was a lot of fun today, thanks to all the volunteers. The old volvo was a blast today.

[xr7bill]

enjoyed the day even though the temp didn't co-operate. Big thanks to all for today and the whole season.

cheers,

Bill

[MurrayPeterson]

For those curious about tires at this temp, here are my observations.

In order of decreasing grip:
Nitto NT01 (I think) on the Volvo 240 were amazing
RE-71R (reduced grip, but not hockey pucks)
All-seasons (still not as good as the RE-71Rs, even at this temp)
Winter tires (just no grip compared to the other tires)

The RE-71R grip was certainly reduced.  I fought throttle-on understeer the entire day, and Cam just couldn't put any power down in the Corvette.  The Subaru's had a better time with their AWD, but it still wasn't a cake walk.

[SKI-R]

 

......Reijo in an unfamiliar (relatively) car on winters seemed unaffected and PAXed fine.   

Running my tC for the first time (on the original equipment all seasons) resulted in my highest ever finish in PAX (as a Volvo sandwich).

Just two 'outliers' I know of to counter your grip list.

58 drivers of varying experience, piloting at least 40 unique cars/setups on a different style course than we typically run means there were way too many variables today to conclude anything specific (or general for that matter) with respect to tires IMO.  If one person had run it repeatedly in the same car, but on different tires and generated results that mirror your list then I'd accept your observations at face value - as it is.........more research needs to be done!   

Another fun day regardless.  Cheers.

[MurrayPeterson]

Sorry -- I didn't intend for my list to be authoratative

I know that Wayne and Cam tried winter tires on the FRS and RE-71Rs on the Corvette;  Wayne mentioned to me how useless the winter tires were for grip.

And that Volvo on the Nittos just flew around corners; its times were way lower (relatively) than I would have expected from that car.

The all-season ranking was just a guess on my part, with me beating Reijo (barely) as the one datum I used.

So, I agree -- probably too many variables to make any real conclusions outside of my own experience with the Bridgestones.

[zero10]

My somewhat restrictive opinions on tire choice for today:
I didn't feel safe driving the Focus on RE-71Rs to the event so I brought the Elantra on General Altimax RT-43s (super cheap all seasons).  I felt severely held back by the tires, they just got super greasy and wore off in chunks from the shoulders.  I think there was enough grip out there to warrant the sticky tires.

I think further than just considering the tire compound it is also worth considering how much tread was left on the tires and how heat cycled out or old they were.  I think even 2 tires of the same model might behave differently once it gets this cold depending on their history.

So often we see a course where there is a clear right answer, and a car where there is a clear right setup.  It is nice to see people trying out different things to see what sticks! (pun intended)
I regret my decision to bring the Elantra today, even more so when I read the scores and discovered I was bumped another 3 positions all the way to 16th in the final minutes of the day

Great job everybody putting on this event - I had a blast today despite the weather and numb-to-the-point-of-painful feet I was suffering.

Also - just curious, but what was done to that 240 to put it all the way down in FSP?

[zero10]

Oh, one more thing!

I wouldn't have thought to ever ask this before, but how do cones count when they shatter?  Do we go by the biggest remaining piece?  I saw one where the base was run over smashing off one corner which flew well out of the box, but enough of the base remained for the majority of the cone to remain upright and within the box.  I assume that didn't count but how much of the cone has to leave the box (separated from the cone that remains within the box)?  50.0001%?

[andythebruce]

My somewhat restrictive opinions on tire choice for today:
I didn't feel safe driving the Focus on RE-71Rs to the event so I brought the Elantra on General Altimax RT-43s (super cheap all seasons).  I felt severely held back by the tires, they just got super greasy and wore off in chunks from the shoulders.  I think there was enough grip out there to warrant the sticky tires.

I think further than just considering the tire compound it is also worth considering how much tread was left on the tires and how heat cycled out or old they were.  I think even 2 tires of the same model might behave differently once it gets this cold depending on their history.

So often we see a course where there is a clear right answer, and a car where there is a clear right setup.  It is nice to see people trying out different things to see what sticks! (pun intended)
I regret my decision to bring the Elantra today, even more so when I read the scores and discovered I was bumped another 3 positions all the way to 16th in the final minutes of the day

Great job everybody putting on this event - I had a blast today despite the weather and numb-to-the-point-of-painful feet I was suffering.

Also - just curious, but what was done to that 240 to put it all the way down in FSP?

I'm just out for fun, I have no intention of being competitive, so I class myself in a manner that won't cause a stink. The car is stock (100whp/2900lbs) aside from suspension and seats.

[MurrayPeterson]

Oh, one more thing!

I wouldn't have thought to ever ask this before, but how do cones count when they shatter?  Do we go by the biggest remaining piece?  I saw one where the base was run over smashing off one corner which flew well out of the box, but enough of the base remained for the majority of the cone to remain upright and within the box.  I assume that didn't count but how much of the cone has to leave the box (separated from the cone that remains within the box)?  50.0001%?

Cool question!

I think the answer has to be something that does not depend on a judgement call on the marshal's part.  Just like going to the left of a pointer cone, but hitting a cone.  It doesn't matter what side of the car hit the cone, the fact that you hit it means that you were on course.

So, probably something along the line of "if any part of the cone base is still inside or touching the chalked box, then no penalty accrues"

[LilDrunkenSmurf]

Oh, one more thing!

I wouldn't have thought to ever ask this before, but how do cones count when they shatter?  Do we go by the biggest remaining piece?  I saw one where the base was run over smashing off one corner which flew well out of the box, but enough of the base remained for the majority of the cone to remain upright and within the box.  I assume that didn't count but how much of the cone has to leave the box (separated from the cone that remains within the box)?  50.0001%?

Cool question!

I think the answer has to be something that does not depend on a judgement call on the marshal's part.  Just like going to the left of a pointer cone, but hitting a cone.  It doesn't matter what side of the car hit the cone, the fact that you hit it means that you were on course.

So, probably something along the line of "if any part of the cone base is still inside or touching the chalked box, then no penalty accrues"

I saw the volvo in front of me do it (one of the drivers in Andy's car), where the "cone" went sideways, but the entirety of the base was unmoved, in the box. I laughed. I was still on the start line when it occured.

[MurrayPeterson]

Or perhaps a different rule:   if you hit the cone hard enough to break it, then you get the penalty. 

[zero10]

I'm just out for fun, I have no intention of being competitive, so I class myself in a manner that won't cause a stink. The car is stock (100whp/2900lbs) aside from suspension and seats.

That's cool - if you ever want to figure out the right class I (or probably many other people on here) would be more than happy to lend a hand parsing out the rules.
You put down some pretty decent times and I noticed it was suspiciously flat when cornering so when I put that together with FSP it got me wondering.



Murray - I like your interpretation, if any part of the cone is in the box it doesn't count.  I've sort of had a checklist of unusual ways to NOT get a cone penalty I was working on.  Previously it consisted of only 3 things:

1) Make the cone do a flip and land upright touching the box
2) Run over a cone flattening it but have it pop back up and stay touching the box
3) Drive over top of a cone without touching it (i.e. tripod over a cone)

I have accomplished the last 2, and although I watched you do the first one I have not been able to replicate it.  Now I've got something new to add to the list!

[sti-tom]

Also - just curious, but what was done to that 240 to put it all the way down in FSP?

I'm just out for fun, I have no intention of being competitive, so I class myself in a manner that won't cause a stink. The car is stock (100whp/2900lbs) aside from suspension and seats.

NT-01s are only a 100 treadwear tire, so your classing was correct as is. If you run 200 treadwear tires with correctly sized wheels you might be able to run in STS (depending on extent of suspension mods and seat weights), which doesn't have a drastically better pax (0.832 vs 0.840).

[Migsy]

I'm just out for fun, I have no intention of being competitive, so I class myself in a manner that won't cause a stink. The car is stock (100whp/2900lbs) aside from suspension and seats.

Well you sure as hell humbled me. My jaw dropped when I saw you hit below 42! Nice work!

- Migs
(Red Corolla GTS)