Tires/Setup Questions

[Robp201]

Also I believe if you change to slotted rotors you will no longer be in stock anyways... I am curious of this cause I would like to look at differnt brakes as we did experience some good brake fade today.

How did you manage to get brake fade today?  Today's course(s) were the most speed maintenance (and least braking) of any course I remember.

BTW -- thanks to Tom G for a great couple of courses.  Seemingly simple, but tough to extract those last bits of time.

Happens all the time espicaly in Fort Macleod. its a ford flaw with the SE model.
Smaller rotor and pad and they heat quick.
Also with the DCT we don't get engine braking like the standard transmission ( another flaw lol) so in order to slow the car you have to brake.

never thought I would be autocrossing so when I bought the car figured it was just to go to work and back ( and love it for that).
This winter we will look at a differnt set up for next season.

[Midnightsky]

Also I believe if you change to slotted rotors you will no longer be in stock anyways... I am curious of this cause I would like to look at differnt brakes as we did experience some good brake fade today.

How did you manage to get brake fade today?  Today's course(s) were the most speed maintenance (and least braking) of any course I remember.

BTW -- thanks to Tom G for a great couple of courses.  Seemingly simple, but tough to extract those last bits of time.

Happens all the time espicaly in Fort Macleod. its a ford flaw with the SE model.
Smaller rotor and pad and they heat quick.
Also with the DCT we don't get engine braking like the standard transmission ( another flaw lol) so in order to slow the car you have to brake.

never thought I would be autocrossing so when I bought the car figured it was just to go to work and back ( and love it for that).
This winter we will look at a differnt set up for next season.

Really hope your sticking around in H-street would love the competition from you guys.  Hopefully someone brings out a FiST next season too and we can all mix it up in H-street

[Robp201]

Now I know many will say stop fussing about car setup and get some seat time.  I agree seat time needs to stay top of my list for next year.  But ultimately I feel I can push myself to gain the resources I need to do everything I have planned minus the Koni yellows.   I really want to come out the gate swinging next season and use my H-Street PAX to full advantage.  I will definitely be planning for the autocross school as well to help me sharpen that loose nut behind the wheel too.  I am really looking forward to next season and fighting hard for a spot in the top 20 PAX.

Just curious.... what excuse do you plan to use once you do all these mods and still not be top 20?

Not sure where your getting the "excuse" part from, the only complaint Ive had in the 3 events Ive done this season is tires and who can blame me they are oem, but it hasn't stopped me from having fun and knocking off the dust from the loose nut behind the wheel.  I think you have gotten the wrong impression about me. Having been around autocross and rallycross on/off for the past 5 years I well know the importance of seat time and experience.  Unfortunately the past couple years finances have been very low and prevented me from getting the seat time I had wanted.  I am expecting a better winter with my career and better finances to help me push forward for next season.  In the 3 events Ive done this year I have identified some weak points I wish to address, brake bite, rear swaybar, and tires.  None of them are crazy expensive and none of them should reduce my seat time next season.  The brakes as Murray pointed out only really require better pads and Im willing to try that and leave the oem rotors next season unless I encounter some issues.  The DOT3 fluid is a cheap and easy change which can be done with the pads, Ive boiled fluid before so that's why I was thinking DOT4.  Ive also got about 3/4 of a can of superblue DOT4 in my garage that needs to be used so I may end up going with DOT4 for that reason, undecided at this point.  As for the Koni Yellows, I had mentioned before that I was looking to just learn a bit more about them and not committing to adding them.  I don't feel that Im leaving seat time high and dry or over focusing on setup, the two work hand in hand to acquire good runs and place well.  Sure I could start with just tires and leave out the swaybar and brake pads out, but why limit the car if I am confident the finances will be available? Do I expected to be in the top 20 first event, absolutely not, but by mid-season I believe it is an achievable goal.  And that's just it, a goal, no guarantee it comes true, but I want to set that as a point to push myself to improve each event.  Heck if it takes me 3 years to get there that is totally fine, I will keep taking the autocross school each season and finding those mistakes Im making to continue improving my runs.   I am in this for the long haul and have no plans on moving from H-street with my Mazda.

Sounds like you have a good plan.

Maybe the word excuse wasn't the right choice of word, but if everyone else is saying seat time seat time seat time that's what I'd be listening to that.
The suggestions others are giving regarding your questions is very cool and interesting.

We haven't decidied yet where we are headed as reality is I will probably find greg a car for him to race and daily seeing he will have his licence next year. and then something differnt for me.

[MurrayPeterson]

The brakes as Murray pointed out only really require better pads and Im willing to try that and leave the oem rotors next season unless I encounter some issues.

OK, first agenda item before making any more plans -- go back and re-read the rules.  You cannot change the rotors and stay in street classes.  And, believe me, if you want to have any hope of being competitive with your car, you really need to stay in HS.

Sure I could start with just tires and leave out the swaybar and brake pads out, but why limit the car if I am confident the finances will be available?

Second agenda item -- you need to start looking at budget.  If you do want lots of seat time, then you should probably expect to attend up to 15 events (or more).  Assuming that you can get 100 runs from a set of tires, you will need 2 sets for the summer.  Add in 15 events worth of entry fees, tire rotation fees, fuel, meals, hotel rooms, oil changes, school fees, and at least one set of brake pads per summer.  If you plan on tracking the car (rotors and DOT4 suggest this), then you can start thinking about seriously increasing the cost of racing.

You have a sway bar.  Add some brake pads and good rubber, and run for next summer without any other changes.  All of these other changes (including shocks) just reap diminishing (or zero) returns for more and more money.

[Midnightsky]

The brakes as Murray pointed out only really require better pads and Im willing to try that and leave the oem rotors next season unless I encounter some issues.

OK, first agenda item before making any more plans -- go back and re-read the rules.  You cannot change the rotors and stay in street classes.  And, believe me, if you want to have any hope of being competitive with your car, you really need to stay in HS.

You have a sway bar.  Add some brake pads and good rubber, and run for next summer without any other changes.  All of these other changes (including shocks) just reap diminishing (or zero) returns for more and more money.

That is exactly my plan, apparently my powers of communication are weak lol.  I won't be doing hotels, for back to back Fort McLeod events I will likely just do one out of the two days.  That is strictly to ensure I don't wear myself thin before going back to work Monday as my job is very physical.   YYC events back to back I can pull off, Red Deer events if any are back to back I can probably pull that off as Im in Airdrie and it's not that long of a drive.  And never fear, my car will remain in HS for its entire life.

[partsunknown]

I think you're over thinking it. But if you want to prep yourself for next year, I would do:

1. Good Fluid - I find that Motul RBF600 doesn't last as long, requires frequent bleeds, and easily boils (on some cars) at the track. Endless RF650 is overkill, but I've used it with good results. I hear Castrol SRF is also very good, less maintenance, and is probably less hydrophilic than the Endless RF650.

2. Swap out pads for events - Whatever "race" pad you decide on, you'll always be better off swapping pads for events if it's your daily. I would skip over the Stoptech Street performance pads. Great on the street, "OK" for light autocross, no-go on the track. FWIW, you'll need to match your brake pads to your driving style and overall grip.

3. Rotors - Blanks are all you need. I wouldn't worry too much about heat dissipation. Drilled rotors are no good with high heat applications and are prone to cracking. Slotted rotors are cool, but unnecessary with modern brake compounds IMO.

Have you ever experienced true brake fade after a long straight at Castrol, or at Race City? Maybe elsewhere? I don't think we go fast enough at any of our locations to really experience rock hard/no-brake situations. If you've experience fade I'd chalk it up to over-driving, stomping on the brakes when they're cold, or not standing on the brake hard enough

Anyways, that's my 2c from one newb to another 

I agree with everything you said, but it sounds too involved for the OP. I got the impression that he is looking for a good all around brake setup that doesn't require swapping to "race" pads for each event

I only suggested the Stoptech Street Performance (now known as "Sport") because he had mentioned Hawk HPS and Carbotech AX6. While I don't have any experience with the AX6, IMO the HPS pads are a step below the Stoptech Sport. I agree that they would not be as good as a dedicated "race" pad but I think they would serve the OP well as a good daily/autocross pad.

[PedalFaster]

The two things Im looking at today is pads and rotors.  What Im looking for is a sharper initial bite and pads/rotors that can handle some heat.  Ive identified two brands that I think have proven their merits, Hawk, and Carbotech.   In the past I have used the HP+ and been very happy with the bite once they have warmed up but was never a fan of daily driving them from the noise.  Also whatever pads I choose also have to deal with winter and perform decently for ice racing

Most of us don't need a trackworthy pad for autocross, but I'll take your word for it that you do. Unfortunately, the pad you're looking for doesn't exist. Ability to work when cold is pretty much inversely correlated with ability to work when super hot -- in other words, true track pads don't work when cold, let alone at subzero temperatures.

For an example, take a look at this chart of pad compounds from Hawk's website. Note that the pads that work at ambient temperatures fall off relatively quickly, while the pads that work at high temperatures don't work at ambient.

If you really need a pad with more heat tolerance than OEM, you'd be best off running a performance pad during autocross season, then swapping out to a more OEM-like pad for ice racing season.

[JamesTCallaghan]

My Civic had Carbotech XP10 Pads on it when I got it, and let me tell you it was absolutely horrible for auto x. After four runs in a row, I still had very little braking capability and the car was difficult to drive consistently let alone consistently fast because of that.  I'm sure a AX6 would be better, but I think you should run OEM pads until either you do find them overheating at some point (unlikely at auto x but possible, I did experience a pretty large decrease in braking capability during the challenge back in August, but had four runs with decreasing cool down time between them, and only on the final two corners of my fourth run did it become noticeable), or you find yourself actually going to Castrol.  In which case you will likely want something like a XP8 or XP10 which will be completely useless and detrimental at auto x, and at that point I would highly suggest only running them for lapping events.

I've considered changing the pads in my WRX to possibly a Hawk or Stop Tech street pad, but I am really really happy with the bite and ease of smoothness for my heal and toe currently while street driving and i'm worried I might ruin that small pleasure, possibly another thing to think about with your car?

[MurrayPeterson]

^^^ What James said.  Pick a pad for high temp (track) or low temp (autox) -- you can't have both.

For the S2000, I always used Axxis (or PBR) Ultimate ceramic pads.  Grabbed beautifully, even at -30.  Useless for track, but an incredibly good autox pad, with huge initial bite and easy modulation.  Squealed a lot and created more dust than you could imagine.  However, the dust was not corrosive, and washed off easily.

[Midnightsky]

Big thank you to Shane for helping out getting my rear swaybar installed today.  I gotta say wow what a difference it makes for such a seemingly simple piece of metal.  Hopefully I can make it out Oct 1st to YYC and get my FWD tripod on