PAX

[Terry Johns]

Am I right in assuming that PAX was introduced to produce a level playing field ? If so then the same driver on the same day on the same course should be able to get in a Mini Cooper or a GTR and set the same PAX time or am I mistaken.

[Stuart]

Provided they are both prepped to the limit of their respective classes that would roughly be the case.  There are still idiosyncrasies where course design or weather can swing things (tight courses favours the Mini, sweepers or straights favour the GTR, etc.)

[Terry Johns]

Thanks for your reply. I thought I was assuming correctly.

That being the case then it would make sense that many of our SASC events are being won by high powered cars, as most of our courses are biased towards HP and speed.

[Reijo]

The PAX values are calculated by Rick Ruth and modified every year by him.   He bases the calulations on SCCA National Tour and SCCA National Championship results.

They are not perfect, of course, but like Stuart points out, the calculations, being based on major event results, essentially assume full (or close to) car preparation, very good driving, national-level course design etc.  Due to variations in course design, weather, time of running during the day, little mistakes by drivers, and, well, you name it, there are variations.

However, overall, the system seems to work pretty well considering everything.  Of course, cars change with time and a new "ringer" car or new idea/modification/alien comes along every now and then that/who upsets the apple cart.  The PAX then gets modified the year after ... usually.

[Reijo]

BTW, there is "some guy" in a Lexus family sedan who took 5th place in PAX on Sunday.  (a little embarrassing? ... for all of us, that is.)   

R

[Terry Johns]

Yes, that was an impressive display of driving talent.  . I wonder how it would have done on a tight twisty course more suited to low power cars.

[Terry Johns]

I personally think its time to introduce some slower, tight and twisty courses. I would also like to see a Course Design Team put together. Be nice see some of the many talented people in our club doing some course design. Until then, keep up the good work Reijo. 

[MurrayPeterson]

BTW, there is "some guy" in a Lexus family sedan who took 5th place in PAX on Sunday.  (a little embarrassing? ... for all of us, that is.)   

R

It might also have something to do with a run taken in an M3 (same class)

[Terry Johns]

Um 

[Canuck]

Am I looking at different results than the ones that I posted? 

1  312   SSP Tom G            2010 Chevrolet Corve     54.847  0.872    47.827 100.000
   2  930    FS Matthew R        2005 Ford Mustang GT     58.783  0.814    47.849  99.952
   3   88    DS Stephen H        2008 Mini Cooper S       59.062  0.811    47.899  99.848
   4  192   SSP Cam W            2010 Chevrolet Corve     55.470  0.872    48.370  98.877
   5  190    FS Ryan C           2006 Lexus Family Se     59.820  0.814    48.693  98.220
   6   24    SS Jim W            2011 Porsche Cayman      59.017  0.835    49.279  97.052
   7    5    BS Murray P         2002 Honda S2000         59.761  0.826    49.363  96.888
   8   32   CSP Reijo S          1994 Mazda Miata         57.035  0.867    49.449  96.718
   9    8    CS Terry J          2015 Mazda MX5 GS        60.597  0.819    49.629  96.368
  10  180    CS Wayne D          2007 Nissan 350Z         60.614  0.819    49.643  96.341

There is no class dominance - I would note that there is a Mini in 3rd and Stephen could drive the door handles off a yellow school bus.  I think the PAX is fair and the above mix of drivers from various street and prepared classes shows that it works.  For the record, I'm in 50th and that seems about right to me - PAX isn't killing me.  The people at the top of this list are all outstanding drivers...top 10 in RAW separated by 5 seconds!  You're down at 32nd place by the time you've got to 10 seconds out of the top raw scores.  Awesome competition.

[NickST]

I was going to make a post, but might as well just toss it up in here:

I put together a list of the fastest cars in each class (er em... I mean the cars chosen by the fastest drivers    ) from all of the 2015 US nationals.  They way I did it was I took the top half of all the cars at each event (so like 1300 cars) and then did a huge breakout and filtered out the top cars (... er, sorry again... I mean cars the top drivers picked). It comes out like this:

SS-Class:
1) 2015 Corvette Stingray
2) 2009-present Corvette Z06
3) Non-Supercharged Lotus Elise

A-Street:
1) Honda S2000 CR
2) Corvette C6
3) Corvette C5 Z06

B-Street:
1a) 5th Gen Evo
1b) AP2 S2000
1c) Nissan 370Z
2) Corvette C5
3) 2015+ WRX STi

C-Street:
1)3rd gen MX5
2) Nissan 350Z
3a) Mazda RX8
3b) Scion FRS

D-Street:
1) Mini Cooper JCW
2) Chevy Cobalt
3) 2015+ Subaru WRX

E-Street:
1a) Mazda Miata 1st Gen
1b) Mazda Miata 2nd Gen
3) Toyota MR2 (3rd Gen)

F-Street:
1) BMW 135i
2) BMW M3 (4th Gen)
3) 2010+ Mustang GT

G-Street:
1) 2nd Gen Mazdaspeed 3
2) 2015+ GTi
3) Ford Focus ST

H-Street:
1) 2nd Gen Mini cooper (non-s)
2) Ford Fiesta ST

[nnywg]

I agree.  Typically my PAX ranking is one or two positions behind my RAW time despite running a very unorthodox vehicle in a weird class.  PAX doesn't change much in my case.  Level of prep makes a big difference on top of driver skill.  Would I be faster on race rubber?  Yes.  Would I be faster with more experience?  Probably.  Would I be faster in a different car?  One day I guess we'll find out.

It's easier to find other competitors who are close to you and gauge your performance vs. them - ignore Raw and Pax and push to beat your personal 'rival'.  Typically for me I try to keep up with Duane, for example.

[NickST]

I've heard this is the official recipe for good times:

80% driver
10% tires
5% luck
5% car

[threeotwo]

That being the case then it would make sense that many of our SASC events are being won by high powered cars, as most of our courses are biased towards HP and speed.

If I remember correctly the Miata only made about 110-120HP on the dyno, it still seems to do ok 

[Terry Johns]

I imagine the power to weight would be great